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	<title>Comments on: The Heretic in Me</title>
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	<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/the-heretic-in-me/</link>
	<description>Bringing Scripture and Theology to Life</description>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Myers</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-3831</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 May 2011 13:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-3831</guid>
		<description>Thank you. I hope your new career path is fulfilling and enjoyable. I am in a new career path right now too, and it is rarely fulfilling, which is one of the reasons I blog and write. I find these activities challenging and fulfilling. I am going to subscribe to your blog, and I look forward to reading what you write.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you. I hope your new career path is fulfilling and enjoyable. I am in a new career path right now too, and it is rarely fulfilling, which is one of the reasons I blog and write. I find these activities challenging and fulfilling. I am going to subscribe to your blog, and I look forward to reading what you write.</p>
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		<title>By: After the Pulpit</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-3814</link>
		<dc:creator>After the Pulpit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Apr 2011 13:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-3814</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a Lutheran church.  

I guess I share my beliefs but I tell them slant.  I mostly employ a kind of narrative, theo-poetic, story-telling style of preaching that is generally appreciated and only rarely parsed out by parishioners intent on trying to pin me down.     

That said, there are times when I preach with my fingers crossed and I don&#039;t like that.  I am on way out of ministry actually.  It&#039;s no longer a good fit for me if it ever was.  The work is meaningful to be sure, and I have the skills needed, but I have rarely felt joy in the work.  2 out of 3 wasn&#039;t bad for a while but after 12 years in the pulpit I&#039;m looking forward to stepping out.  Currently I&#039;m studying in a part-time career counseling program at a local university and working part-time at the church.  As soon as the congregation call&#039;s a new pastor (which should be very soon), I&#039;ll focus on my new calling as a career counselor, workshop facilitator, writer and blogger (just launched--www.afterthepulpit.com) 

I resonate with your own concerns and probably wouldn&#039;t recommend going back into the pastorate.  It&#039;s sad that doubts aren&#039;t welcomed more in the pew but that&#039;s the case.  I&#039;m looking forward to tomorrow&#039;s gospel text which focuses on the man we derisively call &quot;Doubting Thomas.&quot;  I love the man!  He&#039;s the only one among the disciples who has the courage to honestly express what everyone else is thinking and, in turn, he&#039;s blessed for sticking his neck out with his doubts.  

Hope you are likewise blessed Jeremy for doing the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a Lutheran church.  </p>
<p>I guess I share my beliefs but I tell them slant.  I mostly employ a kind of narrative, theo-poetic, story-telling style of preaching that is generally appreciated and only rarely parsed out by parishioners intent on trying to pin me down.     </p>
<p>That said, there are times when I preach with my fingers crossed and I don&#8217;t like that.  I am on way out of ministry actually.  It&#8217;s no longer a good fit for me if it ever was.  The work is meaningful to be sure, and I have the skills needed, but I have rarely felt joy in the work.  2 out of 3 wasn&#8217;t bad for a while but after 12 years in the pulpit I&#8217;m looking forward to stepping out.  Currently I&#8217;m studying in a part-time career counseling program at a local university and working part-time at the church.  As soon as the congregation call&#8217;s a new pastor (which should be very soon), I&#8217;ll focus on my new calling as a career counselor, workshop facilitator, writer and blogger (just launched&#8211;www.afterthepulpit.com) </p>
<p>I resonate with your own concerns and probably wouldn&#8217;t recommend going back into the pastorate.  It&#8217;s sad that doubts aren&#8217;t welcomed more in the pew but that&#8217;s the case.  I&#8217;m looking forward to tomorrow&#8217;s gospel text which focuses on the man we derisively call &#8220;Doubting Thomas.&#8221;  I love the man!  He&#8217;s the only one among the disciples who has the courage to honestly express what everyone else is thinking and, in turn, he&#8217;s blessed for sticking his neck out with his doubts.  </p>
<p>Hope you are likewise blessed Jeremy for doing the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Myers</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-3799</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Apr 2011 01:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-3799</guid>
		<description>You have a way with words and ideas, that is for sure! Thanks for sharing part of your story here. 

How does the current church you are an interim pastor with view your current beliefs? What kind of church is it if you don&#039;t mind me asking?

I sometimes wonder if I could ever go back into the pastorate with some of my beliefs (and doubts).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have a way with words and ideas, that is for sure! Thanks for sharing part of your story here. </p>
<p>How does the current church you are an interim pastor with view your current beliefs? What kind of church is it if you don&#8217;t mind me asking?</p>
<p>I sometimes wonder if I could ever go back into the pastorate with some of my beliefs (and doubts).</p>
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		<title>By: After the Pulpit</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-3793</link>
		<dc:creator>After the Pulpit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Apr 2011 21:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-3793</guid>
		<description>I guess I&#039;m guided by other questions now Jeremy, even though my position in the church (interim pastor with an eye on the exit sign) compels me to entertain them on occasion.   

Truth is, I really don&#039;t dwell on--

     a) if there is life after death in the way I used to envision it, 
     b) whether God exists in an objective, verifiable sense (don&#039;t know how I&#039;d   
         ever prove such an ephemeral, numinous ideal in words anyway) 
     c) whether I or anyone else is &quot;saved.&quot; 
     d) whether biblical events/persons &quot;actually&quot; happened/existed. 
     e) most other traditional/conservative theological questions.

I just don&#039;t give these questions much heft anymore. Words like &quot;God&quot; &quot;Salvation&quot; &quot;Redemption&quot; are the ingredients of a semantic soup that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and if I&#039;m overstuffed with them (as I have been most of my life) I&#039;m left with a horrific case of indigestion and gas.  Frankly, they trigger memories of cruel fighting, condemnation, division, and despair.  Sometimes I want to throw up when I hear John 3:16 because of its haunting memories of being used as a sledgehammer, fire insurance contract, etc.  Sad.

Anyhow, I resonate and find solace in the mystic Meister Eckhart&#039;s prayer - &quot;I pray to God to rid me of &#039;God&#039;.&quot;  

In analagous terms, I&#039;d rather smell a rose than try to name it, possess it, classify it, write treatises about it, and explain what it smells like to another.  

I&#039;m passionate about finding life before death, the extraordinary in the ordinary, the divine in the daily, and the flesh and blood of human community.  I&#039;d take a deep/meaningful conversation with a human being (of any faith/non-faith) over a volume of systematic theology any day.  That&#039;s where I find the story of faith embodied.  I have no issues with the Christian faith when viewed through the poetic lenses of the human story.  Unconditional love almost always is crucified, but life and love have the last word.  That&#039;s my hope in this oft messy, oft cracked, oft broken, yet incredibly beautiful and good existence.   

The big guy in the sky is fine without my beliefs about him (and of course in my old circles it was always a &quot;him&quot;).  I&#039;ve come to suspect that the old pie in the sky is full of cherry pits anyway ;)   

Thanks for the opportunity to think more on this Jeremy, 
Best Regards, 
Peter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I&#8217;m guided by other questions now Jeremy, even though my position in the church (interim pastor with an eye on the exit sign) compels me to entertain them on occasion.   </p>
<p>Truth is, I really don&#8217;t dwell on&#8211;</p>
<p>     a) if there is life after death in the way I used to envision it,<br />
     b) whether God exists in an objective, verifiable sense (don&#8217;t know how I&#8217;d<br />
         ever prove such an ephemeral, numinous ideal in words anyway)<br />
     c) whether I or anyone else is &#8220;saved.&#8221;<br />
     d) whether biblical events/persons &#8220;actually&#8221; happened/existed.<br />
     e) most other traditional/conservative theological questions.</p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t give these questions much heft anymore. Words like &#8220;God&#8221; &#8220;Salvation&#8221; &#8220;Redemption&#8221; are the ingredients of a semantic soup that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and if I&#8217;m overstuffed with them (as I have been most of my life) I&#8217;m left with a horrific case of indigestion and gas.  Frankly, they trigger memories of cruel fighting, condemnation, division, and despair.  Sometimes I want to throw up when I hear John 3:16 because of its haunting memories of being used as a sledgehammer, fire insurance contract, etc.  Sad.</p>
<p>Anyhow, I resonate and find solace in the mystic Meister Eckhart&#8217;s prayer &#8211; &#8220;I pray to God to rid me of &#8216;God&#8217;.&#8221;  </p>
<p>In analagous terms, I&#8217;d rather smell a rose than try to name it, possess it, classify it, write treatises about it, and explain what it smells like to another.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m passionate about finding life before death, the extraordinary in the ordinary, the divine in the daily, and the flesh and blood of human community.  I&#8217;d take a deep/meaningful conversation with a human being (of any faith/non-faith) over a volume of systematic theology any day.  That&#8217;s where I find the story of faith embodied.  I have no issues with the Christian faith when viewed through the poetic lenses of the human story.  Unconditional love almost always is crucified, but life and love have the last word.  That&#8217;s my hope in this oft messy, oft cracked, oft broken, yet incredibly beautiful and good existence.   </p>
<p>The big guy in the sky is fine without my beliefs about him (and of course in my old circles it was always a &#8220;him&#8221;).  I&#8217;ve come to suspect that the old pie in the sky is full of cherry pits anyway <img src='http://www.tillhecomes.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />    </p>
<p>Thanks for the opportunity to think more on this Jeremy,<br />
Best Regards,<br />
Peter</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Myers</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-3789</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Apr 2011 18:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-3789</guid>
		<description>Wow. That is an amazing story. 

I too have felt fear at some of my questions. Your story is an encouragement to me. 

Do you still believe in God? Where are you on some of the other doctrines of Christianity?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. That is an amazing story. </p>
<p>I too have felt fear at some of my questions. Your story is an encouragement to me. </p>
<p>Do you still believe in God? Where are you on some of the other doctrines of Christianity?</p>
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		<title>By: After the Pulpit</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-3782</link>
		<dc:creator>After the Pulpit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-3782</guid>
		<description>The opposite of faith is not doubt but certitude--the kind of black and white fundamentalism that is the bane of many of our world&#039;s religions.  

I applaud your honesty and open questioning.  I have walked a very similar labyrinth.  
I remember a rainy night in Trafalgar Square London a number of years ago.  I was on a European soul searching trip having graduated from Moody Bible Institute and feeling utterly pissed off with the cruelty of certitude that I had experienced there.  That said, I was scared of the questions that were bubbling up in my soul--really scared.  So, sitting there in the great square I vowed to God that I would never walk away from my core beliefs (many of which you&#039;ve stated) and that if I was inclined to, would God please take me before that ever happened.

Well, all of your leaning towers of doctrine have fallen for me.  And I&#039;m still alive!  The sky did not fall.  In fact I feel a great weight off my shoulders. 

Anyhow, peace to you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The opposite of faith is not doubt but certitude&#8211;the kind of black and white fundamentalism that is the bane of many of our world&#8217;s religions.  </p>
<p>I applaud your honesty and open questioning.  I have walked a very similar labyrinth.<br />
I remember a rainy night in Trafalgar Square London a number of years ago.  I was on a European soul searching trip having graduated from Moody Bible Institute and feeling utterly pissed off with the cruelty of certitude that I had experienced there.  That said, I was scared of the questions that were bubbling up in my soul&#8211;really scared.  So, sitting there in the great square I vowed to God that I would never walk away from my core beliefs (many of which you&#8217;ve stated) and that if I was inclined to, would God please take me before that ever happened.</p>
<p>Well, all of your leaning towers of doctrine have fallen for me.  And I&#8217;m still alive!  The sky did not fall.  In fact I feel a great weight off my shoulders. </p>
<p>Anyhow, peace to you!</p>
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		<title>By: Conversions: From Senior Pastor to Church Dropout - O Me of Little Faith</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-476</link>
		<dc:creator>Conversions: From Senior Pastor to Church Dropout - O Me of Little Faith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-476</guid>
		<description>[...] I wrote a post on my personal blog about some of these things I was studying. I titled it &#8220;The Heretic in Me.&#8221; It was the first thunderclap in a life storm that would last for several [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I wrote a post on my personal blog about some of these things I was studying. I titled it &#8220;The Heretic in Me.&#8221; It was the first thunderclap in a life storm that would last for several [...]</p>
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		<title>By: A Million Miles with Donald Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-475</link>
		<dc:creator>A Million Miles with Donald Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Mar 2011 05:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-475</guid>
		<description>[...] one of my posts of infamy, I mentioned that I knew my thinking was changing because I started agreeing with authors I used to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] one of my posts of infamy, I mentioned that I knew my thinking was changing because I started agreeing with authors I used to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Myers</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-474</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Mar 2011 23:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-474</guid>
		<description>Mandy,
Yes, Christians can be pretty mean to each other. I don&#039;t know if you have seen much about the new book coming out soon by Rob Bell. The book isn&#039;t even on the shelves yet, and people are being just plain nasty toward him. It is very sad.

I agree that much of what we hold as doctrines today were probably not held by the early followers of Jesus. We have added much over the years. So be encouraged. You don&#039;t have to know everything being discussed in this post or in the comments. The early followers of Jesus probably didn&#039;t know much about it either, and they were better followers of Jesus than most of us.

I added an &quot;archive&quot; page today which might help you read through the posts if that is what you are doing. The archive is listed in the top menu.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mandy,<br />
Yes, Christians can be pretty mean to each other. I don&#8217;t know if you have seen much about the new book coming out soon by Rob Bell. The book isn&#8217;t even on the shelves yet, and people are being just plain nasty toward him. It is very sad.</p>
<p>I agree that much of what we hold as doctrines today were probably not held by the early followers of Jesus. We have added much over the years. So be encouraged. You don&#8217;t have to know everything being discussed in this post or in the comments. The early followers of Jesus probably didn&#8217;t know much about it either, and they were better followers of Jesus than most of us.</p>
<p>I added an &#8220;archive&#8221; page today which might help you read through the posts if that is what you are doing. The archive is listed in the top menu.</p>
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		<title>By: mands81</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-473</link>
		<dc:creator>mands81</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Mar 2011 22:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-473</guid>
		<description>I am reading your newest posts to your oldest.I have never been to bible school but I consider myself in the journey of education concerning the bible.more than any opinions that you have what concerns me most is how &quot;brothers and sisters&quot; through their comments responds to someone who thinks differently from what is perceived as absolutes(not sure if that&#039;s the right term) in scripture.I wonder did the apostle believe half the things that are seen as church doctirine today?how did the disciples who did not have the new testament or the ability to read follow Jesus?I appreciate your questioning.In my experience we are too quick to try and fix someone or use the scriptures as a control mechanism and to slow to practise empathy and love.
.p.s I didn&#039;t understand half the terminolgies being used in this whole discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am reading your newest posts to your oldest.I have never been to bible school but I consider myself in the journey of education concerning the bible.more than any opinions that you have what concerns me most is how &#8220;brothers and sisters&#8221; through their comments responds to someone who thinks differently from what is perceived as absolutes(not sure if that&#8217;s the right term) in scripture.I wonder did the apostle believe half the things that are seen as church doctirine today?how did the disciples who did not have the new testament or the ability to read follow Jesus?I appreciate your questioning.In my experience we are too quick to try and fix someone or use the scriptures as a control mechanism and to slow to practise empathy and love.<br />
.p.s I didn&#8217;t understand half the terminolgies being used in this whole discussion.</p>
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