By Jeremy Myers Filed Under Close Your Church for Good, Preaching Written on September 19, 2011

Hey Pastor! Sit Down and Shut Up!

When I was a pastor, there was nothing I enjoyed more than studying Scripture for the three sermons I taught weekly. The second thing I enjoyed most was actually teaching what I had learned.

Eric Liddell once said this:

I believe that God made me for a purpose, but He also made me fast. When I run, I feel His pleasure.

When I was a pastor, I often felt God’s pleasure when I studied Scripture and when I taught it to others.

Today, as I am no longer a pastor, I rarely get to do either.

Why am I no longer a pastor?

Well, some of the answer to that question is written in various posts on this blog, and the rest of the answer will probably never get written anywhere. At the core, however, was a conviction that I could not go back into the pastorate, at least, not as it has traditionally functioned.

But I wasn’t sure exactly how it should function, or for that matter, how the church itself should function.

So about eighteen months ago I began to write a book called Close Your Church for Good. Writing the book was how I was going to work through some of the questions I had about church. I was making good progress, but then, exactly three months ago, I stopped publishing posts about it.

What happened to Close Your Church for Good?

I ran into a roadblock: I tackled the question of preaching.

As preaching had been one of my favorite parts of pastoral ministry, and even today seems to be a hallmark of a healthy church, I had great trouble dealing with what the teaching and preaching activity of a church should look like.

I think I may have a handle on it now. Maybe. I may, at least, be headed in the right direction. The chapter will be called “Down with Preaching” and I will begin making posts on it tomorrow. If you love preaching (either preaching to others, or listening to good preaching), I would really appreciate your input on these posts. And if you know others who also enjoy preaching, invite them to join in also.

I am basically going to tell pastors (myself included) to sit down and shut up.

Of course, I hope I’ll be a bit more gracious than that.

However, the thought recently occurred to me as I was working on this chapter that maybe I am just trying to comfort (or maybe cauterize) myself over my sense of loss about no longer being able to preach. If so, I hope you’ll tell me to sit down and shut up. Except I hope you’ll be a bit more gracious than that.

No matter what, it’s going to be fun. Whatever you think about preaching, you won’t want to miss it.

Check out these related posts on Scripture, Theology, and Church:

Doing Sermon Application Right

Down with Preaching

Increasing our Biblical Literacy

Do I Hate Preaching?

Church Cancelled Today

Want to read more about Bible and Theology? Try one of these:

http://morethani.org Matthew Aznoe

This should be interesting. Thinking about it now, I find it difficult to see how you can justify stopping preaching in its entirely given the many recorded sermons of the Bible, so I am curious to see where you are going with this. Is your problem with preaching itself or merely the format of modern preaching? Then there is the consideration that there is a difference between pastoring and preaching which is lost in modern America, and one who is gifted in one may not be gifted in the other.

Anyway, I’ll get the popcorn.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Matt,

I’m still struggling with it myself, so you will have to give some feedback. Maybe I am stretching the limits of the text too much.

I definitely have a problem with modern preaching. Too much of it is pure entertainment. Many modern preachers would be better off as stand-up comedians, psychologists, or fiction writers.

However, I even have a problem with the strong Biblical sermon. But you’ll see what I mean…

http://www.mopcolorado.blogspot.com FedExMOP

Jeremy,

I love you man. I know this has been a struggle for you for a while, and I wish I had answers, but I do not. What I do know is that you are gifted to be a postor, and you ARE a pastor whether you have a church or not. You have been given a gift of understanding the Word, and being able to share that understanding in a way that makes sense to a lot of people. You also have the heart of a shepherd and love to minister to people who have been wounded by life, circumstances, or other “Christians”.

I do agree with you that the way preaching is done in most churches is not necessarily the best way. I am also continually seeking better, more biblical ways to be Church. Can’t wait to see where you go with this, and I do not worry (too much) about having to tell you to sit down and shut up.

Your Brother In Christ,
FedEx

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

FedEx,

Nah, you don’t have to worry too much. I don’t want to spoil it, but I still place a heavy emphasis on understanding Scripture and living it.

http://helpwiththebible.wordpress.com Steve Reed

This is an issue for me as well. Personally, I see Pastors and Preachers as somewhat different roles. I’m not religiously educated, but a Preacher seems like a teacher and expounder, but a Pastor is more of the group spiritual leader and direction.

It seems to me that very often, our church heads are called upon to do far too many things, and act more like a CEO than a Man of God. This sort of all in one approach, combined with the whole institutional feel of congregations I’ve attended has mostly soured me on church altogether and sent me in search of more meaningful interaction with the Christ’s people and a more effective means of servitude.

It’s a tough road, but maybe your upcoming posts may help.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Steve,
You and I are thinking along the same lines. There is so much that needs to be said about the role of Pastor today, I doubt my posts will even scratch the surface. I will only be dealing with the topic of preaching, but leadership and character are also issues that could (and should) be addressed.

http://www.graceground.com Sam

Occasionally I like to hear a sermon. At this point in our lives, that means online.

However, I like the back and forth of dialogue and conversation. I’ve heard the craziest, wackiest things said in sermons that went way beyond even far out “interpretation” of Scripture. They were really just the opinions of the speaker, but were presented as “the word from the Lord”.

The sermons I like best are those that are lived out. Then I know the “preacher” really believes it, that (s)he really takes Jesus seriously and perhaps that (s)he really cares about people.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Sam,

I think you could have written the posts that are coming….. As usual, you and I are thinking along similar lines.

Bob Conti

Jeremy,
Since I left the traditional church to explore more organic forms of church, preaching has been something I’ve tried to figure out as well. I love good preaching. In fact, I regularly listen to several preachers via iTunes. But at the same time, one of the things that bothered me about the traditional church was the limited scope preaching often took. Only a select few were ever allowed to preach, there was never interaction with the preacher allowed, and congregation input to the topics covered was never solicited. Finally, and most important, much of the preaching was about hot topics, and very little about Jesus, except His role as savior and helper of my personal needs.

Anyways, I look forward to reading (and hopefully commenting) on your posts.
Bob

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Bob,

Yes, you are absolutely right. From many of the comments here, it looks like what I am going to say will not be that radical after all. Many people seem to be thinking the same thing. I look forward to your feedback though!

http://antwrites.com Ant Writes

I’ve met people with the gift of pastor, which is the gift of shepherding. When I was in Germany, I attended the organic church there for a week straight, and the fellow who had the heart and gift of a pastor would hug you and tell you he loved you. For a German, that’s a shock! (Ever hear of the expression “I’d love Germany if it wasn’t for the Germans”? That’s a truism. But there isn’t a spiritual gift of preaching. It may be a gift and a joy, but it’s not a spiritual gift. My passion is to study the word more and more, and be challenged by other views.I think it’s my analytical mind that gives mew that. Did you ever think Jeremy, that this blog is your way of doing what you did at the church? At the Organic fellowship, obviously there were those who taught, but that wasn’t the focus. Do you have “Reimagining Church” by Viola?

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Anthony,

Yes. I think one of the reasons I blog and write is because of my spiritual giftedness and my need to disciple others and learn Scripture along with others.

I do have Reimagining Church, and have read it. It is a great book, and Viola’s books have helped me in my thinking in these areas of preaching and pastoral ministry.
http://www.graceground.com Sam

I tend to agree with you, Anthony. This blog is a great way for Jeremy to continue teaching, and also offers the opportunity for dialogue.

http://blake.co.za/blog rochelle

I don’t follow a religion, but I respect all religions. However I love reading the scriptures.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Rochelle,

I am with you. I love reading the Scriptures also. Are there certain portions you enjoy the most?

mark brown

Jeremy, what do you think of the english word “prophet” used throughout 1 Cor. 12-14…?
I lean towards something like: “those who are speaking the words of God”. (cf. Chapter 12 “as the oracle of God”… I think! Just on lunch break and don’t have the scripture handy.)

I’d love to read some of your thoughts (and anyone elses) on Ch.14 especially! The main subject most focus on is tongues and edification, etc. There’s a little verse that includes (from my paraphrasing memory): “Let two or three prophets speak, and if something is revealed to another, let the first keep silent… so that all may be edified,” etc.

Doesn’t this sound like it would have to be a really Spirit led “order” of service? Most church administrations would be mortified at even considering such freedom, I think. It would take much relationship and trust for all involved to allow the Lord to teach/preach/prophesy through His under-shepherds.

Resting in Him, M.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Mark,

Great question. I’m not sure I have an answer.

I am still trying to sort out what I think about the role of a “prophet.” I used to be a cessationist regarding the “sign gifts” and now I’m not so sure. I do think that whatever the role of the prophet was in the days of the early church, it did involve speaking the Word of God.

I am not sure, however, that 1 Cor 12-14 provides a Spirit-led order of service. I think Corinth had many problems, and Paul was not so much trying to provide an order of service for all church meetings everywhere to follow, but was trying to bring some order to a chaotic mess in Corinth. Also, I am not sure if there were any elders in Corinth, which makes a the situation even more different.

http://antwrites.com Ant Writes

@Mark, I may be qualified to answer this one, since I was a Pentecostal pastor. In the Assemblies of God, where I was ordained, tongues was not the focus. In most AG churches I either preached at or attended, only 1 or 2 even HAD the “gift” of tongues. In my church, it was always an old lady who sat right in the front. Then we had a man in the back of the church who would interpret, and then everyone would right down what was said and check the scriptures to verify it. In the organic fellowship, 2 ladies both spoke and interpreted at the same time. But only one time. There was also a girl from Switzerland who would start singing Psalms of praise. Then some would join in. First time I’ve ever heard Psalm 94 sung in German, or ANY language for that matter.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Anthony,

You are more than qualified to answer! Thanks for weighing in.

http://antwrites.com Ant Writes

But I’ve started to change my view of the gifts. Not as many people have tongues as they claim. I see prophecy as “speaking the truth in love”. Not necessarily predicting the future, but I’ve seen people “call out” someone who was sinning (not in public though), and then correct them with the word of God. My good friend/mentor Eugene in South Carolina gets those a lot. The Lord actually told him to go to the house of the worship pastor of a church 15 miles from him. He begged the lord not to make him do it. But he went, and he told him to end the affair he was having, or he’s be judged. Then he went to the woman’s house and said the same thing! e never met them before.
Last he heard, the pastor fond out abut his “trist” ans fired them both. She was a Sunday School teacher.
I think THAT is prophecy. He’s only had it 2 other times.

mark brown

Thanks Jer. and Anthony for your responses (re:the Corinthian church), they both have much value and food for meditation.

Re: the choatic mess Paul was addressing, and what he (or the Lord?) “was trying to” do… Again, it seems the main desire of the Lord (when His followers gather) is their mutual edification (and conviction, and resulting humbled praise/thanks to Him).

Anthony, I’ve heard many similar stories as our brother Eugene’s, and powerful as they are, I see them as hearing the Lord’s voice and obeying it (His leading/prompting to action). We all need to tune our spiritual ears to do the same; although we are all diff. and seem to “hear” (or “know” – John 10) His voice with varying clarity and re: diff. matters.

The “prophesy” alluded to in Corinthians though, is clearly quite specifically for the whole gathering of believers present. It is for immediate and mutual edification. It is how most of “us” in our recent generations expect to “be fed” (via spoon?) by the prepared sermon.
Side note: I can’t think of ANY prepared sermons in the scriptures… whether it be the Lord’s, Peter’s, Stephen’s, or even Paul’s! They all seem to be led (moved) by the Spirit to speak… and they spoke.
Interesting that none of them would actually take more than 15 min. (max.) to actually speak… perhaps only the “sermon on the mount”. I know, many monologuers love to point out Paul teaching so long into the night that the youth fell (both asleep and out the window).
My point isn’t really length of a soliloquey (if the Lord is indeed leading). Nor do I protest the study and medidation of scripture. On the contrary, the more we all do so (be a diligent student of the Lord), the more each of us will be able to speak His words (via His Spirit)… AS HE LEADS! Wow, eh?

What I do object to is the idea that the whole gathering should reverently keep silent (even if the Lord is leading otherwise) while the Right Reverend plows through his material (the fruit of 40 hours of academic and professional study). Sit, soak and often sour.

A few gatherings I’ve visited have been on the chaotic side. However, the majority of congregations “attended” are definitely on the safe and controlled pendulam swing [using the tradition of pews, pulpit, monologue prepared sermon, "worship package", announcements, prayer (maybe), scripture reading (almost phased out), etc.].

I love you guys, and appreciate your willingness to dialogue and seek. Thank you for your patience with me in my wordy-ness (yikes).
I enjoy your wordiness (I can’t spell it right ‘cuz it’s not a word) though!
In Christ alone, M.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Mark,
In future posts, I will be dealing with some of the passages you bring up here, and will generally be going in the same direction you mention in your comment. Stay tuned!

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Yes, I have heard of this happening, and think that this may be one use for such spiritual gifts.

http://thewholedangthing.wordpress.com JBen

I am a person who loves to preach. I work in college ministry and occasionally get to preach at my church.

I feel an inner tension with preaching. On one hand, it communicates great things (when done well) to a large or small group of people. On the other hand, I can’t imagine that Jesus’ vision for his church is to have the primary focus on one person talking at them once a week.

Maybe we all need to take a step back and figure out what the proper place of preaching, along with all the other awesome things the people of God can do, is.

I did just get back from a few days of training with people who will lead inductive Bible studies at a conference and I couldn’t be more excited about it.

We don’t have to preach. We get to help people encounter and be transformed by Jesus as the study Scripture.