By Jeremy Myers Filed Under Ecclesiology Written on January 24, 2011

Is Your Church Hateful?

Have you ever heard of a church that thought of itself as unloving, or bad for families?

Of course not. Every church in the country would probably describe themselves as a warm and loving family church. But is it possible that all churches truly fit this description? Not likely.

So what truly is a loving church? How do you know if a church if good for families? What does it look like? What do they do?

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http://devotionsofgrace.wordpress.com Jordan

I think a truly loving church is one that accepts you with open arms. The members not only treat you like you’re their family, they sincerely consider you family. You should be able to count on your Pastor and church community for anything, and it should go both ways. Basically I believe a loving church should be like a huge extended family. They are your brothers and sisters in Christ. I think that is a good atmosphere for families in church, especially for children. That old saying…’It takes a village to raise a child’…just think how awesome it would be if your church family is sincerely a part of that village…it could have an amazing influence on your child.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Jordan,

Thanks for the input. I agree. Church should be more like a family, and less like a place you go for an hour or two once a week. It should be a group of people you can call on when trouble arise, and go help others when they are experiencing troubles.

Do you think it should be people you love hanging out with, or are there always going to be people in your church you put up with, but don’t enjoy being with?

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Jennifer Parker

Do you have any suggestions for a church that is becoming “hateful?” My heart is breaking and I am contemplating leaving the only church I’ve ever truly called my own because of a small but loud group who lie and backstab. Of late, I am their primary target – and although I have support, my support is quiet while theirs is loud. Church used to be my solace and refuge and now it feels like just the opposite and I have to gear myself up to face it. A 14-year old boy just told me that he was grounded for a week for talking to me (his mother is part of this group). I tried to talk to the pastor, but his wife is also one of these women. There are only four of them but they feel all powerful! Do you have any advice for me?

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Jennifer,
I am so sorry you are experiencing this. My heart breaks when I hear of such things. I want you to know that no matter what they say or do, you do not deserve such treatment. Nobody does.

As far as advice, I have little to offer, especially since I do not know all of the details. I would never tell someone to remain in such a situation, but at the same time, I cannot tell you to leave either.

Sometimes, God brings people like this into our lives to refine us and teach us humility and patience. By leaving too soon, we may miss out on what God is trying to do in our own lives. I think of David with King Saul. Saul hated David and even wanted to kill David, but remarkably, David continued to serve in the palace until he was forced out. But Saul continued to chase David and even hunt him down like a dog. But never once did David raise his hand against Saul. I think that this endurance under injustice and hardship made David the man and the king that he was.

At the same time, however, if you have children and they are being damaged by the church, you should probably leave for their sake, as your first priority is to them. Whether or not you have children, if you do end up leaving, make sure you leave peaceably. You should not gossip about or slander anyone in the church, or try to take other people with you. If you are able, you might want to sit down with the pastor, and as calmly and graciously as possible, explain why you are leaving.

If you want to talk about this further, feel free to do so in the comments here, as it may help others who are experiencing the same thing, or you can email me at jmyers AT tillhecomes.org

Jennifer Parker

My family keeps saying that the truth will come out in the end – but it hurts to wait for the truth to come out when you know that people are being told lies – especially when many of them are people you don’t know well enough to confide in, yet are still people you have respect for. Do you know what I mean? I have to comfort of knowing that I haven’t done or said any of the things they accuse me of, and in the belief that their lies will come out. Thank you for your response and for listening. I appreciate your comparison of David and Saul…you’re the third person who has compared me in one way or another to David – and I appreciate the comparison no matter how slight it may be. It’s better than my friend who keeps comparing me to Job – that one’s a little scary!

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Yes, I have been there when someone compared me to Job. When I was going through a difficult time, he told me, “Don’t worry. God is just preparing your for something worse. Like Job.”

That was reassuring.

Anyway, I haven’t lost my children yet. Hang in there. Stay true to your convictions. Continue to humble yourself in the sight of the Lord, and let Him lift you up. Keep me updated on how it goes.

Jennifer Parker

I’ve been reading Noni’s posts with you – and Noni, my prayers are with you. I hope your pastor is truly an honest man of faith who will help you through this. In the meantime – Jeremy, oh my – how my situation has escalated AND somewhat resolved. I didn’t find out about this until it had already happened – but over the past few months this group of 4 women have gone to the church elders and pastor three times, demanding that they get rid of me and accusing me of all kinds of crazy things. I since was told that they would have been “satisfied with nothing less than my blood on the floor of the church!” The church elders brought in an investigator and mediator from the larger church body, who is also a pastor. I met with him three times. He was wonderful to me, but of course I didn’t know what else he was doing or who he was talking to or what was being said.

Well – pardon my French – but all hell broke loose. When the mediator tried to get together with everyone involved – I was the only one willing to try to work it out. The mediator then told me that not one of their accusations showed any truth and he advised the pastor to cut ties with this group and said that the congregation was getting the impression that he was favoring one small faction of the church while disregarding others. He refused to cut ties with them even when he was given evidence of lies told and trouble made. The pastor and his wife (who was one of the 4 women), the other three women and their families have left the church.

It’s been horrible and yet I feel relief beyond what I can tell you. I feel like the hate is gone from the building along with the tension and pain. Still – it’s said and it was all so unnecessary. There’s still more happening as this group is trying to take our youth members away from the church and undermining events sponsored by our church. But I believe that God will come through on the side of what is right, and that he won’t allow the kids to be lead down a bad path.

I still have a lot of hurt over the whole ordeal – but I’ve learned that there were a lot of good people working behind the scenes to unearth the truth and I’m grateful.

Jen

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Jennifer,

Wow. You were like King David when his son Absalom tried to take the throne from him. David didn’t put up a fight, but simply left the Jerusalem and his throne behind, thinking (apparently) that if God wanted him to have the throne, God will make sure he kept it. The series of events showed how wise David truly was.

Hang in there. I suspect that more slander and accusations will continue to come your way. The group that left will continue to try to take more people away from the church.

Was the pastor paid? If so, is he still getting paid, now that he has left the church? How?

Jennifer Parker

Jeremy,
Let me give you one example. The four women involved were organizing a “team” sort of fund-raiser for a nationally known charitable event. Months ago – many others in church signed on to help out – me included, and have planned all along to be a second team representing our church. After they left, I determined to go ahead with the fund-raising event that I was supposed to chair – a big dinner. This type of event with a dinner and bucket raffle would ordinarily draw 150-200 people and make more than $1000 clear. Well – two things happened…37 people showed up and we barely broke even – but the charitable group contacted me with a list of those representing our church…all the names on “team one” were these women and their families. “Team two,” which was supposed to be the “rest of us” is listed as more of the first group and their friends.

Our church attendance has been WAY down; the pastor is officially “retired,” so no longer being paid – but IS listed as a member of one of the “teams” which still bear the name of the church they left.

The remainder of our group who have done a lot to raise funds have determined to give these groups everything we’ve made along with a “God bless you in your efforts,” type note.

As to the continuing slander? Oh yeah! They still have plenty to say and blame me for what they are calling the “break up of our church.” They’ve also told people that (before they left) money was disappearing from the Youth account and that I was stealing it. Since leaving – they’ve told people that the church elders have stolen all their hard-earned money. Neither is true of course.

I really believe that things will work out in the end and that right will prevail, and as I said – I’m already more comfortable and more comforted in my faith and in my church again. But I also believe that they will do more damage before they’re through.

Jen
http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

That is such a sad story, but even worse, far too common in churches.

Have there been any casualties among new believers or people who were not believers but were wanting to know more about Jesus? That is when it gets really tragic.

noni

Hey Jeremy. Like Jennifer, I too am seriously contemplating leaving church. Im already isolating from them. Im being falsely accused of something even being called wicked although I havent done anthing wrong. Psalms 109:1-5 Psalm 142 Jeremiah 23:1-2 Jeremiah 11:19. And for Jennifer, Jerem 15:15&16-the Lord will vindicate you Jenn! But all these verses are confirming that I need to leave in peace, but I have grown to love them in spite of the slander, but Im not sure if going back would be wise for me. Im praying about it & recovering from this with being reconnected to the vine, but this is hard & not to mention lonely. Any suggestions & prayers will help. Thanks. xoxo.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Noni,

I am glad you love them despite the slander. Without much knowledge of what you are going through, it is hard to provide advice. But please know that if you do end up leaving place you are attending for church, you are not really leaving church. If you are a believer in Jesus Christ for eternal life, you are always a part of His church. You might want to find a group of others who can encourage you and pray for you. At the bare minimum, turn to Jesus as often as possible in prayer and through the Scriptures.

noni

Hey Jeremy. One thing is, I suffer a lifetime of depression & anxiety. Have trust issues. Im different as to looks, but Ive accepted Jesus Christ as Savior & Lord. Ive always been the object of ridicule & rejection. Its hard to connect. Unfortunately, this church, is very judgemental & borderline legalistic. I believe that many people love the Lord & are filled with the power of the Holy Spirit, but I just cant seem to fit in & noone seems to care. Psalms 142. I was advised to read the gospel of John, so Im doing that now. But Id like to at least say goodbye to the Pastor & leave this church in the spirit of love & grace at some point. I need support from the Body of Christ. Sometimes I get tired of being a lone ranger saint. I cant really explain all the details of it but like in Jeremiah 11, I too was like a lamb totally oblivious that I was being conspired against. But like Jesus, I love them still, & I choose to forgive & move on. Let the love of God cover multitudes of sins. Thanks Jeremy. xoxo.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

If you end up leaving, it might be a good idea to sit down the pastor, explain why, and say your goodbye, and let them know you are leaving in love and will not slander or talk bad about the church.

But if you leave, nobody should be a Lone Ranger Christian. You definitely need people around. You could start by checking http://www.site.house2house.com/ to see if there are any others in your area who might want to meet.

noni

Jeremy thank you for confirming what I felt that right thing to do. I do desire to meet with him & do so with grace & not malace or bitterness. And I will check out the website too. Thank you for your Godly wisdom & compassion you share. Continue the good work God started in you. Phillippians 1:6. You are blessed! Thanks for listening & caring. xoxo

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Noni,
I will pray for you that the grace of Jesus gives you the words to day, and leads you to other like-minded people.

noni

Yeah Jeremy please keep me & my soon former Pastor in prayer. I sent him a text this am saying Im not able to go to bible class tonight, but I solicited his prayers. I still want to meet with him later this week and say goodbye, but he sent me a weird response :-p? not sure what it meant, but it didnt sound too well. So how do I go about wrapping this up peacefully & quickly? He sounds like hes offended. sos?
http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

What was the weird response?

I will tell you right now that he will most likely get very defensive, argumentative, and critical of you. Be prepared for that. We pastors do not like anyone leaving or criticizing our church.

Probably the best way to handle it is give yourself no more than 15 minutes. Go in knowing exactly what you are going to say, then give him time to respond a bit, and then leave. If he gets angry, you might want to leave sooner. Also, if he gets angry, do not take to heart anything he says.
noni

Hey Jeremy quick update from yesterday: talked with my Pastor around 3pm on the phone. he told me he was sticking his tongue out at me smileys but it was comical not insulting. But he picked me up along with a couple other brothers in Christ for Bible study, & we had a good study on Romans 6 & Ephesians 2. he does seem to be a concerned shepard, but I just having a difficult time warming up to people, but judging by things said last night, we are more alike than we are different because we are His workmanship. Although Im still a wee leery about going there regularly, Im just trusting the Lord & letting him direct my steps according to His will & not mine. I still say let the love of Jesus Christ cover multitudes of our sins. Thanks Jeremy. Galatians 6:9 is for you! xoxo.
http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Noni,

thank you very much for the update. Continue to follow Jesus and the leading of the Holy Spirit!

Jennifer Parker

New members, fairly new believers – and most importantly – the teenagers are my biggest concern. One boy (15) was punished for arguing with his mom and another woman about being hypocrites when they talk about how we treat others and talk about others and then the way they talk about me. He feels pretty defensive over me because I’ve had him as a student and in youth and choir – and he was grounded and punished for what he described as “calling them out.” His faith is quite strong, some of the others are knew and are hearing all this negativity all the time. I worry about them daily and pray for them to be guided to truth wherein their fair will be strengthened instead of weakened.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Yes, teenagers are a big concern. I know many adults and college students who turned away from Jesus and the church because of bickering and fighting within a church they attended in high school.

Do what you can to protect and encourage this 15 year old.

noni

OMG Jennifer I was just thinking of you & blessings to Jeremy. Romans 8:31 God is for you Jenn. He is fighting your battles & just stand! ephesians 6:13. Its hard cause Im having a similar problem with my church & Im praying for my pastors & elders. But I recently completed a fast & I heard the Lord say think it not strange 1Peter 4:12 & also Proverbs16:7 when a mans ways please the Lord he will make your enemies be at peace with you! Haleljuah! Jenn, just keep pleasing the Lord & desire his will for your life be lead by the Holy Spirit Rom 8:14. God cannot lie & he will fight on your behalf! Hes doing it now. Keep praying for those who hate & muisunderstand you. They need the grace of God working through your prayers. Galatians 6:9-10 dont give up & continue to serve all Gods people! xoxo.
noni

Hey Jen & blessings to Jeremy. One more thing. I thank God for the victory in your life bcause if you had of left that church prematurely, those people would still be there causing more trouble & the enemy would have won, but look at the end result & how you trusted the Lord & not your flesh. Jen, you endured this! I know it was tough, but God is using this test as your testimony for the newcomers & that 15 year old young man. Jen, just know that God calls you a good & faithful servant. I support you in prayer & I thank God for your integrity & your example of endurance! Stay strong! Blessings!
noni

Hey Jeremy. Tired dude. Eccl. 10:4 if your rulers spirit rises against you leave not thy place for yielding pacifies great offenses…& yes, Jeremy, I did make a mistake with my pastor a few months ago because I overreacted in anger about something & I vented. Even though I have since repented, & he (pastor) claims i havent offended him, but his actions speak louder than his words. But yet, God is not telling me to leave, but my flesh is telling me to walk away in grace cause I refuse to be bitter. Everytime I reach out & offer to help & contribute, its like my good is evil spoken of. If I offer a word of encouragement to anyone it is rejected & then im accused of flattery. It seems the more God breakes me of my pride/low self esteem, the more Im being accused & shut off. Like theyre trying to run me away by chattering about me. Its frusterating Jeremy. Like David, I consider these people my siblings in Christ, but I cant take the backstabbing & slander, but God told me to love them & serve them in love, but Im getting tired like Elijah, Id rather be safe under the juniper tree right now dude.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Loving others who treat you poorly is the hardest thing in the world to do! Hang in there.

None of us are experts at it or have “arrived” either. I failed at loving someone yesterday who treated me poorly. I lashed out at him when I should have just kept my mouth shut.

Anyway, take time to pray and walk with Jesus. He will calm you down and refresh your spirit to show people His love.

noni

hey Jeremy, yeah, thats all i can do is hang in there by a thread. Matthew 11:30 his yoke is easy his burden light, but this ‘burden’ is feeling heavier & heavier & more overwhelming by the day. but yes, just depending on the Lord Jesus & his word. and I believe he will bring me calm & peace. it brings many tears to my eyes & grieves my spirit that this is happening, but I remember you did say that somtimes God allows unfortunate things to happen to teach us humility & patience. (submission too) im praying that God will continue to break me like God broke Jacob & changed his name to Israel. and he changed Jacobs nature. And then Jacob reconcilled with Esau. God is good because what satan means for evil, God means it for good in order to save people! but being sifted like this though is almost more than I can bear Jeremy, but Im trusting God no matter what. love you J, please keep me in prayer & stay encouraged! happy 4th.
noni

Jeremy Im in tears right now. all i can do is cry out to God. Im all alone. my pastor & his wife wants nothing to do with me & im having personal problems & i need their support & prayers. In spite of the fact that Im supporting them in prayer in deed & finances & im still reaching out, but they take my good & speak evil against it. I feel the pain that David felt when he considered them his brothers & he fasted & prayed for them, yet when David needed his brothers prayers & support, he was nothing to them but a joke! Im being run out of church & Im being forced out of town it seems. I still believe God wants me to stay there & serve Ecc 10:4, but things are getting more & more contentious, but i refuse to be bitter. I still choose to honor & please the Lord cause when a mans ways please the Lord he will make his enemies be at peace with him….

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Noni,
I am very sorry this is happening to you.

I really think, however, that it might be time for you to move on. I do not know the entire situation, but it sounds like your pastor is abusive and controlling, and you are just damaging yourself spiritually and emotionally by staying.

Don’t try to “find another church” quickly. Spend some weeks or months just enjoying the presence of Jesus as He heals your spirit through Scripture and prayer.

noni

Hi Jeremy. I understand what youre saying, & I’m trying not to think that way although it sounds valid, but you know, I’m still praying and fasting and interceeding for my pastors. As for now, I really believe that God has placed me here for a reason, and yeah, some days are better than others, but as I get to know him and his wife a little more, I’m discovering that they are human and are also frail. Yeah, sometimes i can be a little paranoid & I’m recovering from my own bouts of anxiety and depression, but I believe that yeah though time, seeking the LORD for direction and grace as he coninue to develop a spirit of grace & compassion in me, and continued prayer for my pastors, I think that the LORD will work things out. Yeah cause even our Pastors need healing too man. Alrite Jeremy i love you & keep you updated. Just keep me and this situation in prayer. Thanks again.

noni

Hey Jeremy quick update again: our bible study last night was on Ezekiel 34. Pastor talked about a shepards heart. I believe he does have a shepards heart, but Im starting to develop empathy for shepherds because you guys are in a difficult calling on your lives dealing with difficult people. So what Im starting to learn about shepards/pastors is you guys catch more hell from satan & parishinors than us ordinary folks. And the Lord is also teaching me to be mindful & prayerful of pastors even their time. God is good & He is still moving by His spirit & his grace. But you guys in leadership-that aint no joke. And Jeremy you a pastor too, so I feel for you too. Cause I know sometimes you catch a lotta hell & opposition. Thats why we as parishinors are called to pray & support our pastors both local & national. Alrite. If only more people would have empathy for their leaders. Thats what Im learning. Love you Jeremy. Thanks for listening.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Noni,
It is difficult being a pastor of a church. I am glad you are praying for your pastor and the many struggles he faces on a weekly basis. God is at work in his life just as He is at work in yours. Thanks for keeping me updated!

noni

hey Jeremy. hate to admit it but you were right. my pastor & some of the members are being manipulative & slanderous. every time I get vulernable with the pastor even admitting I need some help or counsel, its like im being accused of beggin & im annoying but yet they have taken advantage of my kindness & have caused discord & yes I believe the pastor is abusing his authority but Im burning out spiritually & am tired of the games he is playing. but in spite of that Jeremy he still stand in need of Gods mercy & love. I still feel somewhat sorry for him, & i may go to church a couple more times, but as you said, its time for me to recover & reconnect & repent with my Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ. thanks for listening Jeremy.
noni

One more thing Jeremy. I was in denial. I didnt want to believe in spiritual abuse, but Im starting to do some research on google. Its unfortunate that things like this happen in church & the pastors are constantly using the Word of God to play on a persons emotions. Like prophet Jeremiah said we are not healed because of foolish pastors feeding themselves. We are outcasts & are tired & are confused & are like sheep without a shepard. We dont need fake love or a fake hope in these perilous times-we need real love of Jesus from broken & contrite men & women of God. Some pastors put so much pressure on those with willing minds & such unrealistic expectations on us that everything we ‘do’ is judged as not good enough or can be better. This leads to frusteration & burnout. Thats where I am right now. Just burned out and alone and once again misunderstood & disconnected….Ok. Im done. Good nite & be encouraged.