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	<title>Comments on: Dirtbags&#8230;Not for the girly-man</title>
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	<description>Bringing Scripture and Theology to Life</description>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Myers</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/dirtbagsnot-for-the-girly-man/#comment-14304</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 13:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/?p=25#comment-14304</guid>
		<description>Judy, 

I found that too. These men found a place where they were accepted and encouraged to be the men God made them to be, and were also encouraged to read and study the Bible and serve others in the community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judy, </p>
<p>I found that too. These men found a place where they were accepted and encouraged to be the men God made them to be, and were also encouraged to read and study the Bible and serve others in the community.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Myers</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/dirtbagsnot-for-the-girly-man/#comment-14302</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 13:30:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/?p=25#comment-14302</guid>
		<description>Matt, 

Maybe I did not adequately convey in this post the depth of Bible study that goes on as part of their weekly meetings. The leader gave a high-quality message based on Scripture which was better than most sermons I have heard in churches. If he does that every week, these men will learn the Bible better than the average person does in church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, </p>
<p>Maybe I did not adequately convey in this post the depth of Bible study that goes on as part of their weekly meetings. The leader gave a high-quality message based on Scripture which was better than most sermons I have heard in churches. If he does that every week, these men will learn the Bible better than the average person does in church.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/dirtbagsnot-for-the-girly-man/#comment-14294</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 19:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/?p=25#comment-14294</guid>
		<description>Great insights, Judy!

I know people who think they know about everything there is to know about the Bible, but seem to forget all of it once they exit their &quot;Bible study&quot;.

Maybe the reason lots of people aren&#039;t interested in &quot;Bible studies&quot; is because the Bible has been used as a weapon or club against them in the past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great insights, Judy!</p>
<p>I know people who think they know about everything there is to know about the Bible, but seem to forget all of it once they exit their &#8220;Bible study&#8221;.</p>
<p>Maybe the reason lots of people aren&#8217;t interested in &#8220;Bible studies&#8221; is because the Bible has been used as a weapon or club against them in the past.</p>
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		<title>By: Judy</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/dirtbagsnot-for-the-girly-man/#comment-14289</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 15:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/?p=25#comment-14289</guid>
		<description>What I found was that the men did want to talk about scripture, and their lives. They just did not want the pressure of being &#039;formal&#039; about it. When we did Bible study, only one person talked and then there was silence. When we did something else real life problems and questions came up. People began bringing up God and the Bible in normal conversation since it became &#039;normal&#039; to talk about these things while doing something else. This informality led to nonbelievers feeling comfortable asking questions and many more salvations. Most nonbelievers are defensive and not open to listening in a church or Bible study. Equipping people to talk about God and their walk in everyday situations is valuable. Every believer has a testimony and a personal relationship with Christ. The hard part is getting them comfortable enough to share it without sounding preachy and condescending. Most of our current &#039;approved&#039; methods don&#039;t allow for this. While there are pitfalls to everything, it is probably time to try living and breathing scripture in everyday life too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I found was that the men did want to talk about scripture, and their lives. They just did not want the pressure of being &#8216;formal&#8217; about it. When we did Bible study, only one person talked and then there was silence. When we did something else real life problems and questions came up. People began bringing up God and the Bible in normal conversation since it became &#8216;normal&#8217; to talk about these things while doing something else. This informality led to nonbelievers feeling comfortable asking questions and many more salvations. Most nonbelievers are defensive and not open to listening in a church or Bible study. Equipping people to talk about God and their walk in everyday situations is valuable. Every believer has a testimony and a personal relationship with Christ. The hard part is getting them comfortable enough to share it without sounding preachy and condescending. Most of our current &#8216;approved&#8217; methods don&#8217;t allow for this. While there are pitfalls to everything, it is probably time to try living and breathing scripture in everyday life too.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Aznoe</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/dirtbagsnot-for-the-girly-man/#comment-14288</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Aznoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 14:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/?p=25#comment-14288</guid>
		<description>My concern is that you are replacing an activity that increases the understanding and knowledge of the Bible with something that has relatively little spiritual value.  Quite frankly, I cannot help but think that they simply don&#039;t want to study the Bible.  They just want to have fun.

It seems that churches today are becoming little more than a glorified social club -- a country club for the middle class, if you will. For example, I have a weekly prayer meeting to which only three men attend (sometimes it is just me).  When asking people about it, the excuse is that &quot;I don&#039;t have time.&quot;  And yet when there is a football game, suddenly those same people show up early on a Saturday morning (the same time as our regular prayer meeting) to play for three hours. The same goes for meeting with people for breakfast or lunch or having a family over for dinner to talk about spiritual things. You make time for that which is a priority, and apparently God does not rank very high. People would rather be entertained than challenged, sing or listen to songs than kneel in intercessory prayer.  They try to assuage their guilty consciences with work rather than wait upon God.

What we seem to have forgotten is that we are waging a spiritual battle in which the stakes are unfathomably high. I think we are coddling a bunch of hell-bound people who have deluded themselves into thinking they actually believe the Gospel message without making a single change to their lifestyle. Here in Texas, there are churches on virtually every street corner, and yet 25% of all sex trafficking in the United States occurs in the state of Texas.  There is a major disconnect here.

If I know there is a twenty-five foot high wall of water coming down the canyon toward my house, I am not going to sit down to watch another episode of &quot;American Idol&quot;.  I am going to head for higher ground.  We need to remember that the lost have a 100% chance of going to Hell unless we do the work that God has called us to do: preach the Gospel.  Woe to us if we give them a pillow on the way to eternal damnation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My concern is that you are replacing an activity that increases the understanding and knowledge of the Bible with something that has relatively little spiritual value.  Quite frankly, I cannot help but think that they simply don&#8217;t want to study the Bible.  They just want to have fun.</p>
<p>It seems that churches today are becoming little more than a glorified social club &#8212; a country club for the middle class, if you will. For example, I have a weekly prayer meeting to which only three men attend (sometimes it is just me).  When asking people about it, the excuse is that &#8220;I don&#8217;t have time.&#8221;  And yet when there is a football game, suddenly those same people show up early on a Saturday morning (the same time as our regular prayer meeting) to play for three hours. The same goes for meeting with people for breakfast or lunch or having a family over for dinner to talk about spiritual things. You make time for that which is a priority, and apparently God does not rank very high. People would rather be entertained than challenged, sing or listen to songs than kneel in intercessory prayer.  They try to assuage their guilty consciences with work rather than wait upon God.</p>
<p>What we seem to have forgotten is that we are waging a spiritual battle in which the stakes are unfathomably high. I think we are coddling a bunch of hell-bound people who have deluded themselves into thinking they actually believe the Gospel message without making a single change to their lifestyle. Here in Texas, there are churches on virtually every street corner, and yet 25% of all sex trafficking in the United States occurs in the state of Texas.  There is a major disconnect here.</p>
<p>If I know there is a twenty-five foot high wall of water coming down the canyon toward my house, I am not going to sit down to watch another episode of &#8220;American Idol&#8221;.  I am going to head for higher ground.  We need to remember that the lost have a 100% chance of going to Hell unless we do the work that God has called us to do: preach the Gospel.  Woe to us if we give them a pillow on the way to eternal damnation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Myers</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/dirtbagsnot-for-the-girly-man/#comment-14276</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 14:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/?p=25#comment-14276</guid>
		<description>Judy, 

Great insight. Women often learn &quot;face to face&quot; while men learn &quot;shoulder to shoulder.&quot; In other words, women love to get together and discuss things, while men prefer to get together and do something side-by-side. Both are learning styles the church needs to be aware of and make available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judy, </p>
<p>Great insight. Women often learn &#8220;face to face&#8221; while men learn &#8220;shoulder to shoulder.&#8221; In other words, women love to get together and discuss things, while men prefer to get together and do something side-by-side. Both are learning styles the church needs to be aware of and make available.</p>
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		<title>By: Judy</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/dirtbagsnot-for-the-girly-man/#comment-14269</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/?p=25#comment-14269</guid>
		<description>I pastored a church a while back and the first thing the men did was beg me not to have any of those men&#039;s Bible study/ breakfast things. They hate them. Instead we did a &#039;sports fellowship&#039; and they didn&#039;t care if the women wanted to come. Men (and women) need an atmosphere where they feel comfortable and can develop friendships. Opening up and admitting you&#039;re not perfect is hard. Sanitized, formal events don&#039;t help. While I cannot vouch for this group, I do recommend activites that men feel comfortable getting to know each other in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I pastored a church a while back and the first thing the men did was beg me not to have any of those men&#8217;s Bible study/ breakfast things. They hate them. Instead we did a &#8216;sports fellowship&#8217; and they didn&#8217;t care if the women wanted to come. Men (and women) need an atmosphere where they feel comfortable and can develop friendships. Opening up and admitting you&#8217;re not perfect is hard. Sanitized, formal events don&#8217;t help. While I cannot vouch for this group, I do recommend activites that men feel comfortable getting to know each other in.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Myers</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/dirtbagsnot-for-the-girly-man/#comment-9232</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2011 14:30:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/?p=25#comment-9232</guid>
		<description>Jim, 
Hello! 

I think the Emerging Church is asking some great questions and raising some great issues, but I don&#039;t think they have offered some good answers. I believe that all churches should at least hear the questions and try to find ways to answer them from sound biblical theology and through good church practices. Some of the best questions and issues they have raised are in the areas of the Mission of God, the Kingdom of God, and how to reach those who do not &quot;fit&quot; within the traditional models of church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,<br />
Hello! </p>
<p>I think the Emerging Church is asking some great questions and raising some great issues, but I don&#8217;t think they have offered some good answers. I believe that all churches should at least hear the questions and try to find ways to answer them from sound biblical theology and through good church practices. Some of the best questions and issues they have raised are in the areas of the Mission of God, the Kingdom of God, and how to reach those who do not &#8220;fit&#8221; within the traditional models of church.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Myers on Facebook</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/dirtbagsnot-for-the-girly-man/#comment-9266</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Myers on Facebook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2011 01:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/?p=25#comment-9266</guid>
		<description>Sophia,

I understand your concern. The term &quot;Girly Man&quot; is of course, a reference to a 1980&#039;s Saturday Night Live skit by Arnold Swarzenegger, but it is definitely not a slam on girls, any more than calling a girl a &quot;Tomboy&quot; is a slam on boys. 

I don&#039;t think there is necessarily anything wrong with more effeminate guys, just as there is not necessarily anything wrong with more masculine women. The important thing is being true to who God made you. 

However, there are certain activities that a &quot;manly man&quot; likes to be involved with, and there are certain activities that an effeminate man likes to be involved with, and the two worlds usually do not meet. This Bible study in Montana is not for all men. It is for the rugged, individual man who wouldn&#039;t be caught dead in a typical church. 

I am of the persuasion that we need all kinds of churches to meet all kinds of people. Here is a group in Montana that is teaching the Bible and bringing the gospel to a particular group which is notoriously difficult to reach. I say &quot;Bravo!&quot;

And the same goes for a church with crying men, trans-genders, and hermaphrodites. I say &quot;Bravo!&quot; 

But we must not say that crying men and trans-genders should have churches while rugged, individualistic men should not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sophia,</p>
<p>I understand your concern. The term &#8220;Girly Man&#8221; is of course, a reference to a 1980&#8242;s Saturday Night Live skit by Arnold Swarzenegger, but it is definitely not a slam on girls, any more than calling a girl a &#8220;Tomboy&#8221; is a slam on boys. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think there is necessarily anything wrong with more effeminate guys, just as there is not necessarily anything wrong with more masculine women. The important thing is being true to who God made you. </p>
<p>However, there are certain activities that a &#8220;manly man&#8221; likes to be involved with, and there are certain activities that an effeminate man likes to be involved with, and the two worlds usually do not meet. This Bible study in Montana is not for all men. It is for the rugged, individual man who wouldn&#8217;t be caught dead in a typical church. </p>
<p>I am of the persuasion that we need all kinds of churches to meet all kinds of people. Here is a group in Montana that is teaching the Bible and bringing the gospel to a particular group which is notoriously difficult to reach. I say &#8220;Bravo!&#8221;</p>
<p>And the same goes for a church with crying men, trans-genders, and hermaphrodites. I say &#8220;Bravo!&#8221; </p>
<p>But we must not say that crying men and trans-genders should have churches while rugged, individualistic men should not.</p>
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		<title>By: Sofia Larsson on Facebook</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/dirtbagsnot-for-the-girly-man/#comment-9265</link>
		<dc:creator>Sofia Larsson on Facebook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Dec 2011 17:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/?p=25#comment-9265</guid>
		<description>Dear Jeremy, I read this article and please go with me as I lay out the logic, or the lack of logic in this text. (Forgive me for criticizing but I take one big leap of faith that you will be more interested in discussing the logic behind ideas than to get hurt by me opposing this..maybe I&#039;m wrong, but I hope not and I will have faith in your intelligence). First of all, it&#039;s deeply offensive that a &quot;girly&quot;-man is considered to be something cornier and less cool than a manly man. Girls are in fact equally cool as boys. But that use of language implies that being a girl is not cool for a real man, and that any man that is a girly-man is of less value and less real. It might seem to be minor for us adults, but it&#039;s devastating for any little girl thinking about her own place in the creation and how God is valuing her. And it will follow her self-esteem for the rest of her life. And it creates contempt in small little boys, who go from cutelycomplaining about having to be with a girl in class because she has girly-bacterias until he gets older and thinks she deserves that slap in the face. The reason why both men and women are deadly tired of church is that, just like you imply in your article, it is full of self-sufficient judging and hypocritical people. Everyone who is not run by fear wants something genuine and real. Also, there is nothing wrong with being sexually aroused by naked men or women, the disturbing thing with the unequal power of division (or lack of division) of power in society produces systems where women continuously lessened, by objectification (more than) men. 80% of women in the porno-industry have been molested as children. This is the result of a perverted power structure. Broken people let themselves be broken over and over. And to justify the tendencies of a perpetrator&#039;s system because he is a man and just has some needs, is wrong. Because it is selfish, - at the expense of somebody else. Otherwise both men and women equally love sex, and lots of heterosexual women love a picture of a nice male ass. Give me a church for women where there are nude pictures of men and the female Pastor says &quot;Damn it&quot; and the visitors are still in their benches, not praying for her but for themselves. Where men cry and are considered cool and strong for showing their feelings. Or where it is recognized that God actually by nature didn&#039;t really create men and women, but men, women, transvestites, trans-genders, hermaphrodites. A society and churches that have stopped forcing people to confess to one of the two gender groups. Now, that&#039;s a Godly revolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Jeremy, I read this article and please go with me as I lay out the logic, or the lack of logic in this text. (Forgive me for criticizing but I take one big leap of faith that you will be more interested in discussing the logic behind ideas than to get hurt by me opposing this..maybe I&#8217;m wrong, but I hope not and I will have faith in your intelligence). First of all, it&#8217;s deeply offensive that a &#8220;girly&#8221;-man is considered to be something cornier and less cool than a manly man. Girls are in fact equally cool as boys. But that use of language implies that being a girl is not cool for a real man, and that any man that is a girly-man is of less value and less real. It might seem to be minor for us adults, but it&#8217;s devastating for any little girl thinking about her own place in the creation and how God is valuing her. And it will follow her self-esteem for the rest of her life. And it creates contempt in small little boys, who go from cutelycomplaining about having to be with a girl in class because she has girly-bacterias until he gets older and thinks she deserves that slap in the face. The reason why both men and women are deadly tired of church is that, just like you imply in your article, it is full of self-sufficient judging and hypocritical people. Everyone who is not run by fear wants something genuine and real. Also, there is nothing wrong with being sexually aroused by naked men or women, the disturbing thing with the unequal power of division (or lack of division) of power in society produces systems where women continuously lessened, by objectification (more than) men. 80% of women in the porno-industry have been molested as children. This is the result of a perverted power structure. Broken people let themselves be broken over and over. And to justify the tendencies of a perpetrator&#8217;s system because he is a man and just has some needs, is wrong. Because it is selfish, &#8211; at the expense of somebody else. Otherwise both men and women equally love sex, and lots of heterosexual women love a picture of a nice male ass. Give me a church for women where there are nude pictures of men and the female Pastor says &#8220;Damn it&#8221; and the visitors are still in their benches, not praying for her but for themselves. Where men cry and are considered cool and strong for showing their feelings. Or where it is recognized that God actually by nature didn&#8217;t really create men and women, but men, women, transvestites, trans-genders, hermaphrodites. A society and churches that have stopped forcing people to confess to one of the two gender groups. Now, that&#8217;s a Godly revolution.</p>
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