By Jeremy Myers Filed Under Church Planting Written on August 22, 2007

Dirtbags…Not for the girly-man

Dirtbags Men's Ministry

I was recently on vacation in Montana and attended a Friday morning mens-only Bible study called “The Dirtbags.” As with the Cowboy Church I visited in Plano, The Dirtbags met in a bar.

The study began about 10 years ago with 10 men. Now, they have two meeting times, 6:30 and 8:00 am, with about 60-80 men at each. Most of these men were the rugged, outdoorsy, work with their hands, salt of the earth type men, and here they were, spending 90 minutes with other men, studying the Bible. So don’t tell me men aren’t interested in the Bible! They just need a Bible study without all the frills and “girly-man” stuff.

The Dirtbag Decor

And there was nothing “girly-man” about this study. The bar decorations themselves were…interesting. In the Plano, TX bar church, there were a hundred neon beer signs. This bar had those also, along with about 20 bikini-girl posters. I had to practice Proverbs 4:25, and keep my gaze fixed on the face of the man leading the study.

The Dirtbag Pastor

The leader of the study was quite a character. I was told he is (or was) on staff with Campus Crusade for Christ. He began the study with a few announcements, followed by some jokes that were e-mailed to him. The jokes were fairly off color, and would have done more than raise a few eyebrows in most churches. The typical pastor would probably get fired for telling jokes like these. However, I will admit that I laughed.

The Dirtbag Evangelism Strategy

The leader also mentioned that they were going to have a golf tournament, and he wanted every man there to invite a non-Christian friend or co-worker. He begged and pleaded with the men to not invite their “religious” friends since there was probably going to be some bad language and excessive drinking that went on. He explained that the religious people would be aghast at such behavior taking place at an event sponsored by a men’s Bible study, and would call and complain about how it wasn’t right to hang out with such sinners (cf. Matt 11:19; Luke 7:34). He said he didn’t want to waste his time listening to the complaints of religious people, so the easiest thing was to just not invite them.

The Dirtbag Prayer Requests

He then took prayer requests for about 20 minutes, which surprised me some, since men are notorious for not asking for prayer when they need it. But these men just kept raising one request after another. Maybe men only don’t ask for requests when women are the room…

The Dirtbag Bible Study

His Bible study also lasted about 20 minutes. It was helpful, practical, down to earth, and best of all, Biblical. He didn’t have a main text, but went to several texts throughout Scripture. Personally, I think sticking to one text would have been better, but these men didn’t seem to have too much trouble flipping through the pages of Scripture. He used two mild words of profanity in his talk, and nobody batted an eye.

The Dirt on Dirtbags

All in all, I think this Bible study shows that men are interested in spiritual things, but they feel most comfortable receiving and talking about them in a manly way. If you haven’t read it yet, you must read Why Men Hate Going to Church by David Murrow to see his findings on this.

On a related note, I was reading through the syllabi for my fall semester at Dallas Theological Seminary, and one of my required textbooks for my “Senior Preaching” class is Preaching That Speaks to Women by Alice Matthews. Maybe I am wrong, but as I look around the average church in America today, I don’t think we need to work on preaching that speaks to women. Our churches reveal that we’ve got that mastered. What we need is preaching that speaks to men.

What are your ideas on how to get more men involved in church? Are bars, bikini-posters, crude jokes, and profanity the way to reach men, especially if the purpose is evangelistic? Is this taking the ”meeting them where they are at” concept too far, or is this redemption in action? Practically, what can you and your church do to better reach men in your community?

Check out these related posts on Scripture, Theology, and Church:

Study your Bible LESS

Divisions of Systematic Theology

Which Bible Translation is Best?

I Don't Believe in the Inspiration of Scripture

The Essential Bible Companion to the Psalms

Want to read more about Bible and Theology? Try one of these:

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Check it out! Mike Ellis of the “Church for Men” in Florida, sent me an e-mail with his blog and ministry on it.

I LOVE it.

Keep up the good work there in Florida!

Also, a different man from Southern California told me of a ministry his church does to men. They serve non-alcoholic beer, and “man food” like beef jerky, cheeze its, etc. They discuss the Bible (mostly NT), Heidelberg Catechism, the book Why Men Hate Going To Church, etc. There is personal testimony, prayer with personal intercessions offered.

He reminds us that “In the end, it is reaching individuals, their hearts and minds, and fulfilling their deep needs as men. Do that and you have something. Fail in it, and you have mainstream Prostestantism of today.”

If you know or hear of some things other churches are doing to reach men, let me know!
http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Hi all,

I have been getting some traffic to this post, and several e-mails, and found that the Church for Men in Alaska had put a notice up about this article. I love David Murrow’s book and so am honored that he posted a link to this article on his site.

Thanks David!
Pingback: TILL HE COMES Blog » Church in a Bar
Bill Finlay

I had a men’s bible study at a local bar for about eight years. One day I quipped “can you believe we are doing this in a bar” and one of the guys said “Where do you think Jesus would be if he were here?”

I read David’s book “Why Men Hate Going to Church” and chuckled for a week because so much rang true. That book has haunted me ever since.
After retiring from law enforcement I went to bible college and on to the mission field. As a missionary I visited a lot of churches and I cannot tell you how many of them forced me to hold hands with another man!

While holding the hand of the man standing nexst to me I couldn’t help but wonder how that would affect a manly man who decided to come see what church was all about…..no doubt it would be the last time he ever set foot in that church!

Thank God! Literally!

I would love to attend a “man church” in Colorado or even start one here!

http://rochow.ca Will Rochow

We have held “Bible Studies” in bars before too. Along with open Bibles on the tables, there were often a few beers (yes, the alcoholic version), some nachos and chicken wings as well. It sure does raise some eyebrows from other bar patrons though. Would Jesus have sat in on such a fellowship time? Absolutely! Blessings

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Bill,

Thanks for the comment. Have you tried contacting “Church For Men” in Florida? They might know of someone in your area who could help you plant a church. Their website it in my blogroll on the left. Tell them I sent you! Ha ha.

Otherwise, I do have some contacts in CO who might be interested in helping plant a church.
Pingback: Church in a Bar
http://morethani.org Matthew Aznoe

I don’t necessarily have a problem with having a meeting in a bar if the goal is to reach men who are in that bar. But we need to consider our brothers who may struggle with the temptation to drink. By forcing them to enter a bar to attend our Bible study, we may be setting them up for failure. Also, with over half of the men in the church already embroiled in pornography, why on earth would we subject them to further temptation? It is this very thing that helps fuel the growing sex trafficking in our country today. This is not protecting our weaker brethren or our dear sisters in Christ.

I also have a major issue with how we are defining “manliness” in our efforts to combat the feminism of the church. Manliness is not smoking and drinking or ogling girls. That is sinful lust given room to play. Manliness is about sacrifice, defending, fighting, contending for the faith. We need to look at the Biblical examples of manliness that had more to do with character and courage than sin and play.
http://morethani.org Matthew Aznoe

One more quick thing that I forgot to add: when it comes to sin and vulgarity from the pulpit (or from any brother in Christ, really) that is completely out of line. We are commanded to let all unwholesome talk cease among us. Our conduct should be righteous and pure.

It is debatable whether or not we should seek to enforce that in others around us. I can understand both sides, but I would tend to lean toward the grace and acceptance and let the Spirit convict them to change. However, as a man with influence on those around me, I strive to remain pure before God and thus be an example of Christ-likeness. We should all be striving to be able to say, like the apostle Paul, imitate me as I imitate Christ.

It is one thing to go to where the sinners are and talk to them where they are at without judging or condemnation; it is another thing to then blend in and be just like them. How then can you testify to the life-changing work of Jesus Christ?

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Matt,
You make some good points. Thanks for weighing in. I had some of the same thoughts when I went, but on the other hand, he was reaching some guys who would never darken the door of any church. This was definitely NOT a Bible study for church-going men.

Larry Jones

What are you reaching them for? Obviously not to lead them away from sin. What is left to repent of if we close our eyes to profanity, lust, drunkeness, pride (I’m a man’s man), and general worldly presence? We are saved from this world. Preaching a salvation that requires no change will damn the listener. I imagine the blood of these men will be on this teacher’s hands.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Larry,
It’s nice of you to judge and condemn this man to eternal hell, even though you have never met him, never talked to him, and have never seen what he is doing.

Sadly, if you are right, then all of us are damned.

Pat Fitzpatrick

Perhaps I can be of assistance here; I’ve been to a few of these meetings. My bona fides: I’ve been a Christian for 25 years, I’ve been to churches all over the world, and have done street ministry, and gone to many maximum security prisons to visit with men to share the Gospel. I attend the dirtbag meetings whenever I go home to visit. As a 3 time attendee, I am no longer introduced as a guest, and I agree with most of what was described in the original post-with a few caveats. First: The main reason this is held in a bar, (it was really a casino, and is now held in a bowling alley) is because there really is not much room anywhere else in town. And the bar/casino/bowling alley is never open during these meetings. Keep in mind that these bible studies occur at 7:00 and 8:00 on Friday mornings. Men have to get out of bed early to attend before work and school. This is in Bigfork, Montana too; it gets cold, and they still come. Second: don’t focus on the “bikini girl” thing. The men who attend certainly don’t. Third: Think of where you were when Jesus Christ first reached out to you. Be careful of harsh judgment when you consider that many of the men who come to hear the Gospel at 7:00 AM would probably not have simply wandered to church on their own. Look at the “public” face of the church now. As an outside non-believing observer, would you trust anybody professing to be a christian? I belong to a regular church and I know that the fellowship of other believers is a critical component of Christianity. But at the same time, I’m a little disheartened when I visit these gigantic warehouses full of lukewarm, part-time Christians. The off-color jokes? Pretty tame stuff, really. Resist the urge to label Creamer as someone that compromises the message. He gives his audience what they can receive. While you and I may tolerate a stronger diet, Creamer reaches people who would otherwise not hear. Most importantly, his goal is to get them to a group of believers so they can continue to grow.
Thanks, only my two cents.
“…Go out to the highways and hedges and compel them to come in”.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Pat,

Thank you for the inside scoop. I work with a lot of guys who would show up at something like this in a heartbeat, but would never darken the door of a typical church.

Your last statement (from Jesus) is right on target: …go to the highways and hedges…

Thanks!

Jim Howard

Hey, Jeremy, I enjoy reading your musings from time to time. This interchange has been interesting. How have your thoughts about the emergent church developed since 2007?

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Jim,
Hello!

I think the Emerging Church is asking some great questions and raising some great issues, but I don’t think they have offered some good answers. I believe that all churches should at least hear the questions and try to find ways to answer them from sound biblical theology and through good church practices. Some of the best questions and issues they have raised are in the areas of the Mission of God, the Kingdom of God, and how to reach those who do not “fit” within the traditional models of church.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=684878832 Sofia Larsson on Facebook

Dear Jeremy, I read this article and please go with me as I lay out the logic, or the lack of logic in this text. (Forgive me for criticizing but I take one big leap of faith that you will be more interested in discussing the logic behind ideas than to get hurt by me opposing this..maybe I’m wrong, but I hope not and I will have faith in your intelligence). First of all, it’s deeply offensive that a “girly”-man is considered to be something cornier and less cool than a manly man. Girls are in fact equally cool as boys. But that use of language implies that being a girl is not cool for a real man, and that any man that is a girly-man is of less value and less real. It might seem to be minor for us adults, but it’s devastating for any little girl thinking about her own place in the creation and how God is valuing her. And it will follow her self-esteem for the rest of her life. And it creates contempt in small little boys, who go from cutelycomplaining about having to be with a girl in class because she has girly-bacterias until he gets older and thinks she deserves that slap in the face. The reason why both men and women are deadly tired of church is that, just like you imply in your article, it is full of self-sufficient judging and hypocritical people. Everyone who is not run by fear wants something genuine and real. Also, there is nothing wrong with being sexually aroused by naked men or women, the disturbing thing with the unequal power of division (or lack of division) of power in society produces systems where women continuously lessened, by objectification (more than) men. 80% of women in the porno-industry have been molested as children. This is the result of a perverted power structure. Broken people let themselves be broken over and over. And to justify the tendencies of a perpetrator’s system because he is a man and just has some needs, is wrong. Because it is selfish, – at the expense of somebody else. Otherwise both men and women equally love sex, and lots of heterosexual women love a picture of a nice male ass. Give me a church for women where there are nude pictures of men and the female Pastor says “Damn it” and the visitors are still in their benches, not praying for her but for themselves. Where men cry and are considered cool and strong for showing their feelings. Or where it is recognized that God actually by nature didn’t really create men and women, but men, women, transvestites, trans-genders, hermaphrodites. A society and churches that have stopped forcing people to confess to one of the two gender groups. Now, that’s a Godly revolution.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003147788910 Jeremy Myers on Facebook

Sophia,

I understand your concern. The term “Girly Man” is of course, a reference to a 1980′s Saturday Night Live skit by Arnold Swarzenegger, but it is definitely not a slam on girls, any more than calling a girl a “Tomboy” is a slam on boys.

I don’t think there is necessarily anything wrong with more effeminate guys, just as there is not necessarily anything wrong with more masculine women. The important thing is being true to who God made you.

However, there are certain activities that a “manly man” likes to be involved with, and there are certain activities that an effeminate man likes to be involved with, and the two worlds usually do not meet. This Bible study in Montana is not for all men. It is for the rugged, individual man who wouldn’t be caught dead in a typical church.

I am of the persuasion that we need all kinds of churches to meet all kinds of people. Here is a group in Montana that is teaching the Bible and bringing the gospel to a particular group which is notoriously difficult to reach. I say “Bravo!”

And the same goes for a church with crying men, trans-genders, and hermaphrodites. I say “Bravo!”

But we must not say that crying men and trans-genders should have churches while rugged, individualistic men should not.
Judy

I pastored a church a while back and the first thing the men did was beg me not to have any of those men’s Bible study/ breakfast things. They hate them. Instead we did a ‘sports fellowship’ and they didn’t care if the women wanted to come. Men (and women) need an atmosphere where they feel comfortable and can develop friendships. Opening up and admitting you’re not perfect is hard. Sanitized, formal events don’t help. While I cannot vouch for this group, I do recommend activites that men feel comfortable getting to know each other in.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Judy,

Great insight. Women often learn “face to face” while men learn “shoulder to shoulder.” In other words, women love to get together and discuss things, while men prefer to get together and do something side-by-side. Both are learning styles the church needs to be aware of and make available.

http://morethani.org Matthew Aznoe

My concern is that you are replacing an activity that increases the understanding and knowledge of the Bible with something that has relatively little spiritual value. Quite frankly, I cannot help but think that they simply don’t want to study the Bible. They just want to have fun.

It seems that churches today are becoming little more than a glorified social club — a country club for the middle class, if you will. For example, I have a weekly prayer meeting to which only three men attend (sometimes it is just me). When asking people about it, the excuse is that “I don’t have time.” And yet when there is a football game, suddenly those same people show up early on a Saturday morning (the same time as our regular prayer meeting) to play for three hours. The same goes for meeting with people for breakfast or lunch or having a family over for dinner to talk about spiritual things. You make time for that which is a priority, and apparently God does not rank very high. People would rather be entertained than challenged, sing or listen to songs than kneel in intercessory prayer. They try to assuage their guilty consciences with work rather than wait upon God.

What we seem to have forgotten is that we are waging a spiritual battle in which the stakes are unfathomably high. I think we are coddling a bunch of hell-bound people who have deluded themselves into thinking they actually believe the Gospel message without making a single change to their lifestyle. Here in Texas, there are churches on virtually every street corner, and yet 25% of all sex trafficking in the United States occurs in the state of Texas. There is a major disconnect here.

If I know there is a twenty-five foot high wall of water coming down the canyon toward my house, I am not going to sit down to watch another episode of “American Idol”. I am going to head for higher ground. We need to remember that the lost have a 100% chance of going to Hell unless we do the work that God has called us to do: preach the Gospel. Woe to us if we give them a pillow on the way to eternal damnation.

http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Matt,

Maybe I did not adequately convey in this post the depth of Bible study that goes on as part of their weekly meetings. The leader gave a high-quality message based on Scripture which was better than most sermons I have heard in churches. If he does that every week, these men will learn the Bible better than the average person does in church.

Judy

What I found was that the men did want to talk about scripture, and their lives. They just did not want the pressure of being ‘formal’ about it. When we did Bible study, only one person talked and then there was silence. When we did something else real life problems and questions came up. People began bringing up God and the Bible in normal conversation since it became ‘normal’ to talk about these things while doing something else. This informality led to nonbelievers feeling comfortable asking questions and many more salvations. Most nonbelievers are defensive and not open to listening in a church or Bible study. Equipping people to talk about God and their walk in everyday situations is valuable. Every believer has a testimony and a personal relationship with Christ. The hard part is getting them comfortable enough to share it without sounding preachy and condescending. Most of our current ‘approved’ methods don’t allow for this. While there are pitfalls to everything, it is probably time to try living and breathing scripture in everyday life too.

http://www.graceground.com Sam

Great insights, Judy!

I know people who think they know about everything there is to know about the Bible, but seem to forget all of it once they exit their “Bible study”.

Maybe the reason lots of people aren’t interested in “Bible studies” is because the Bible has been used as a weapon or club against them in the past.
http://www.tillhecomes.org Jeremy Myers

Judy,

I found that too. These men found a place where they were accepted and encouraged to be the men God made them to be, and were also encouraged to read and study the Bible and serve others in the community.