As for Heb 9:27 it is referring to all people. We must all give account on judgement day and of course before that we must die. Christians give the account of Christ and His blood and non-believers site their works. I don’t see anything contextual that does not allow God to hold OT people that were not presented the Law or the message of the coming Messiah in Sheol, therefore I revert back to 1 Pet 3:19 and the early Churches stance on that Scripture.

Once again, very good question.

You may be right about Jesus offering eternal life to the children in Sheol. I understand that this is a view.

But here are some things to think about. First, did Jesus really descend into hell? Yes, teh apostle’s creed says this, but does Scripture? This idea comes from Ephesians 4:9 and 1 Peter 3:19. But these verses are very tricky to explain, and also have multiple views.

Second, with this view, what would you do with verses like Heb 9:27? Doesn’t it seem from that verse that if you die without believing in Jesus, there is no “second chance”?

Again, I am not arguing with you…your view has some merit, and many hold to it.

The earliest Father’s, even before Origen but he taught this too, taught that these people (the one’s God ordered killed including children, etc) went to the holding place and that they are the ones that Christ spoke too when He, “descended into hell” (The Apostles Creed). He offered the Gospel to them and some no doubt believed and some no doubt were still hard of heart and did not but at least the innocents had the chance to believe. This was a merciful act. He removed the children from earth and their sinful parents by death and then gave them a chance that they would not have had in earthly life…to belive in Christ!

The ancient Church taught that salvation was a journey (not works but a journey through time). It was not some arbitrary moment in time that we mentally assented to some statement. And in cases of folks that never had the chance to believe in Christ, God could very well give them the chance in Sheol. We do not understand everything about God and when we feel we do we can rest assured that it is not the real God, Jehovah.

um…did you read the post? Did you even read the first sentance or two?

WAKE UP PEOPLE IF GOD DOES NOT EXIST, NEITHER DO YOU…

The only thing I can add is something we get from scripture that is implied but not spoken about directly.

On being broken, imagine being the Apostle Paul asked to speak at a 1st century church and recognizing a family member of someone he had dragged to their death in his former job. Imagine the tears, the forgiveness, and finally the unspeakable joy of having the same Holy Spirit indwelling, empowering the power of the resurrection, then fellowshipping around God’s Word as he told of his conversion and conversations with their Lord.

When you read the 2nd half of Ephesians you see the tremendous importance of godly relationships, and the submission we need to love each other unconditionally, with joy and thanksgiving to Christ being the fire that warms us, and to remind us of our sure hope in Him. Peace and grace.

~~Artskoe

i here what you are saying and i feel sad for i have been where you are. it sucked. i am not sure i can provide all the awnsers for you but i do wish to try and provide comfort. so here goes. i to once thought that being “nice” and “selfless” was the purest form of gods love. i wanted to be like some kind of cool monk who could get his face bashed in and then rise from the floor to give a calm and witty monoluge that that would slay the anger of my oponent and touch him with the love of god. i wanted to be able to ride above the pain of this life with the spirit of god protecting me. this is not real life. real life is where i sometimes get pissed off and throw the spatula across the kitchen because i broke the yoke when i fliped the eggs. you are right to say you have been duped. somehow you have belived that it is your job to transform yourself but i tell you the truth, it is god who makes us who we are. every aspect of your personailty will have its upsides and down sides. avoiding hurting others is nice, seeking to help others is better. the problem with trying to be as selfless as you can is that you are still focusing on yourself. the most humble people in the world dont even know they are humble. i know it hurts to try as hard as you can to be “good” only to end up feeling used and broken, abandoned by god, and frankly a little stupid. every time i feel like i am at the end of my self and i cannot even hold still without breaking something in my self i get a little hope because i relise this is the perfect time for god to swing in and save me so i can have a cool story to tell. it is then that life adds a little more weight or god lets me dangle a little longer. and so i break. i fall. i fail. i cry out in confusion and anger and despair, MY GOD WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME.

but it is not the end. our lord has not only the power to keep you from injury or heal you from sickness but indeed the more impressive more glorious power to let you even be crushed and broken compleatly before restoring you compleatly, well almost compleatly, when this happens you might find something missing. that thing will turn out to be some thing that was not good for you and god wanted to remove it from you. you will find that you are glad to be rid of it but there is a small scar to remind you of it’s existance. god is supreem, but i dont know why he dosen’t flaunt it( i would). you may be dissatisfied with yourself but i am glad for your honesty. my last statment is this, i am 31 years old and i have learned as much if not more in my last 9 years than in the 9 years previous to that so please do not assume to much about what you will or will not think on your death bead.