I made a post today about the Purpose of the church, partly in respose to your question above, but also because it has been a “rough draft” for a while, and I decided to publish it when you asked the question.

As stated in that post, I think the purpose of the church is to glorify God.

I know that is “roll-your-eyes” generic, and almost a cop-out answer, but it is what I believe.

This doesn’t come close to answering your question about needs-based church versus discipleship church.

My basic thinking right now is that both are necessary. I think that true and deep discipleship is not happening in a church unless the needs of the congregation and the community are being met, and I think that one of the best ways to disciple believers is to get them serving in the community along side each other.

Somewhere along the way, we have come to equate “discipleship” with “gaining Bible knowledge.” I don’t think this can be defended from Scripture.

We need both strong biblical instruction, and practical, need-meeting service. There are a few churches doing this around the country, but I only read about them in books, and on blogs, and have never actually visited one or seen how it works. But I have a vision for one, and hope to see it emerge into reality some day.

I like your new blog! Keep those posts coming!

Here’s a question for you (maybe you’ve already discussed this elsewhere). It may seem unrelated to this article, but it really does connect (at least in my own mind).

What is the purpose of the church?

Granted, the church no doubt has more than one purpose. But what do you see as the main goal, the main purpose of the church? To evangelize? To disciple? To care for people? To change people’s lives?

Here’s the connection to this post. I totally see and agree with the need for Christians to care about people, like Jesus did. And I certainly don’t think we need a bunch of stuffy church people sitting around discussing Genesis 6 all day while people around them are dying and going to hell (that would be, a place of shame, right? ).

But if the church focuses merely on caring for hurting people, how does that separate us from any other “support group” or what have you? If the church is mending marriages, healing financial woes, helping people get over addictions, etc., then it seems to me that the church tends to blend in to society and all the other self-help type stuff.

In addition, if/when the church is presented as a/the way to help people with their problems, what happens when people don’t get helped, and/or feel like things should have changed in their lives but didn’t? I.e. “I joined the church but my wife still left me”. I had a friend in high school who essentially did that.

I think you would be quick to agree (but maybe not!) that Scripture simply doesn’t speak to most of the problems people have today, despite the attempts of counselors, pastors, etc. The Bible doesn’t really tell us how to get out of credit card debt, or what to do if your kid is strong-willed, or how to tell what your spouse’s love language is (The Five Love Languages is an awesome book though!). These weren’t issues that even existed back then, let alone were they issues that the biblical writers felt the need to address.

Beyond all this, it seems to me that MANY people are leaving Christianity because they aren’t grounded (read: educated) in the origins and defense of their faith. It’s so bad that many Christians see something like the Zeitgeist movie or The God Who Wasn’t There and think they actually make good points. Books critical of Christianity lately are best-sellers (hey Shawn, yes, this is a plug for our apologetics class ).

So if we as Christians focus on helping people have better lives, but we aren’t answering the challenges that are out there, why would people even bother turning to Christian churches when they can get the same help somewhere else w/o the “baggage” of listening to stuff they think is wrong? Also, there is the issue that people can and do make their lives better w/o Christianity, and many people that do have Christianity do NOT have better lives (as you’ve noted).

So if the church becomes all about helping people, it seems that we lose our uniqueness and become simply another self-help option, and a lower-priority one at that since it brings other conditions and aspects that are seemingly undesirable.

Yet OTOH, we obviously can’t ignore people and their problems. We do need to help them. So what do you think? How do you solve this conflict and keep from swinging too far one way or the other (if you think we even need to try)?

I will, of course, always be a student of theology. I am just putting it in it’s rightful place. So yes, go ahead and send me your paper.

And I forgot about that resume. I will send it today.

Bravo, the applause from up here in Colorado is deafening!

Most men who can’t admit to empathy and a change of mind are still maturing in life. I would bet that Jesus Christ shed more tears than we see in the bible. I cried last night in front of my sons during our church’s good Friday service! I have heard enough about people who say FG churches deny the cross. They needed to be among the assembly yesterday of about 3000 believers in three different services that heard the message of the cross given and the simple message of the gift of eternal life by believing in the one that was nailed to the cross for our sins.

I appreciate you brother, and your right we too many people trying to determine how many angels are dancing on the head of a pin. Or was it a needle?

Unfortunately for me I have given my word and will start posting what I have written about the gospel on my blog pretty soon. If you can stand one more theological stint I’ll send you the paper. Also you still owe me your resume!

Your brother,

Jim
Highlands Ranch, CO

Thanks for the comment. I think you are right (both about my wife and the grumpy pastors!). I’ve seen it happen so often with pastors who focus on nothing but theology. It’s hard for anyone to be around them, and then their church starts to stumble, and they blame it more on the people. Toxic! But I speak from experience. I was somewhat that way in my first two pastorates from 2000-2005. I don’t want to go back to being that way!

Bullet,

Thanks for the input and concern. It really means a lot to me. My wife and I did talk over me seeing a counselor. A sudden shift like this does seem somewhat abnormal. But I think that I am just going to monitor things for a while and see what happens. Besides, I kind of like the new me…

While it may seem I’m sounding an alarm prematurely, “temporary” depression can cause changes that are difficult to fix if not treated right away. If everything’s fine and you are simply changing into a more emotional, empathetic person, then that’s fantastic. It wouldn’t hurt or change anything to make sure.

You’ve got my email if you need it.

I love that comment. Maybe this is why preachers grow grumpy instead of more grace-filled. They get focused on theology, truth, debates, controversy and forget about people.

You’re wife is perceptive!