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	<title>Comments on: The Heretic in Me</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/</link>
	<description>Living life on mission</description>
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		<title>By: bullet</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/comment-page-1/#comment-17007</link>
		<dc:creator>bullet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-17007</guid>
		<description>Hey Jeremy:

Re: people trying to oust you for asking questions

There was a group in recent history that expected total obedience with no questions or doubts.  It was the Communist Party in the USSR.


my $.02</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jeremy:</p>
<p>Re: people trying to oust you for asking questions</p>
<p>There was a group in recent history that expected total obedience with no questions or doubts.  It was the Communist Party in the USSR.</p>
<p>my $.02</p>
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		<title>By: Diane</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/comment-page-1/#comment-16932</link>
		<dc:creator>Diane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 05:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-16932</guid>
		<description>Jeremy,  Help!   I just (not too long ago) finished reading Zane&#039;s book, &quot;JESUS God&#039;s Prophet&quot; and it reafirmed that the CHURCH WILL be taken out in the Rapture immediately before the 7 year Tribulation.  It was all based on the Word, &quot;parousia.&quot;  Have you carefully checked through that book?  It&#039;s powerful~!!!  Thanks.

Diane</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy,  Help!   I just (not too long ago) finished reading Zane&#8217;s book, &#8220;JESUS God&#8217;s Prophet&#8221; and it reafirmed that the CHURCH WILL be taken out in the Rapture immediately before the 7 year Tribulation.  It was all based on the Word, &#8220;parousia.&#8221;  Have you carefully checked through that book?  It&#8217;s powerful~!!!  Thanks.</p>
<p>Diane</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/comment-page-1/#comment-15671</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-15671</guid>
		<description>Jeremy,

That is sad that other believers would commit such an act.  Sometimes I wonder if people know how to discern meaning from reading words.  If there is anything I can do please let me know.

In His Strength,

Jim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy,</p>
<p>That is sad that other believers would commit such an act.  Sometimes I wonder if people know how to discern meaning from reading words.  If there is anything I can do please let me know.</p>
<p>In His Strength,</p>
<p>Jim</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/comment-page-1/#comment-15670</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-15670</guid>
		<description>To the believers on this blog, I appreciate the link to de-C it was interesting to read the bio&#039;s of those who contribute.  Since this is a semester in Hebrew I may wait to participate.  But some thoughts came across my mind after reading some of the discussion here and there.

One, unbelievers have excellent questions, and I enjoy my conversations with atheists and agnostics.  We find common ground just as Paul found common ground in the Areopagus (Mars Hill), Athens.  It was then that the Apostle Paul delivered his famous speech about the identify of &quot;the Unknown God.&quot; According to the account in Acts 17.

Two, in relation to the above, we have good answers.  Truth is not some elusive thing or something that doesn&#039;t exist.  It has a source, God.  Someone asked do we believe in absolute truth.  Yes, there are many examples of this, the best one is death, it is absolute.  I&#039;m trained as a scientist before I started training as a theologian.  An empirical example, if I hit you with a baseball bat (forgive the analogy - I was military before I was a scientist) you have an extremely high probability that your going to get hurt, and the fact that the person wielding the bat is trained with hand weapons, makes it a near certainty that your going to get hurt badly.   There are other examples of where truth as understood in the recent generations is defective.  Questions are good if your unbelieving friend(s are)  seeking, if their mind is already made up it is unlikely that any amount of evidence is going to work.

Three, God commands us to give them the answers.  1 Peter 3:15-16, &quot;But set Christ apart as Lord in your hearts and always be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks about the hope you possess.  Yet do it with courtesy and respect, keeping a good conscience, so that those who slander your good conduct in Christ may be put to shame when they accuse you.&quot;  Other passages are 2 Corinthians 10:5; Jude 3, 22; Titus 1:9; 2 Timothy 2:24-25.

One lesbian and one atheist at work are asking a lot of questions, why - because they are responded to &quot;with courtesy and respect.&quot;  This has happened many times in my walk with Christ.  In fact, I have jeopardized my position there to give them the answers as I have been warned by HR once.  A soul is worth more than a job.

To my unbelieving friends, my last and best example of Truth is Jesus, being the God-Man (Son of God) and Israel&#039;s Messiah (the Christ) He is the embodiment of Truth.  (John 14:6)  I hope that if I meet you on the street or blogosphere you will see His reflection - not mine.

Courage and strength,

Jim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To the believers on this blog, I appreciate the link to de-C it was interesting to read the bio&#8217;s of those who contribute.  Since this is a semester in Hebrew I may wait to participate.  But some thoughts came across my mind after reading some of the discussion here and there.</p>
<p>One, unbelievers have excellent questions, and I enjoy my conversations with atheists and agnostics.  We find common ground just as Paul found common ground in the Areopagus (Mars Hill), Athens.  It was then that the Apostle Paul delivered his famous speech about the identify of &#8220;the Unknown God.&#8221; According to the account in Acts 17.</p>
<p>Two, in relation to the above, we have good answers.  Truth is not some elusive thing or something that doesn&#8217;t exist.  It has a source, God.  Someone asked do we believe in absolute truth.  Yes, there are many examples of this, the best one is death, it is absolute.  I&#8217;m trained as a scientist before I started training as a theologian.  An empirical example, if I hit you with a baseball bat (forgive the analogy &#8211; I was military before I was a scientist) you have an extremely high probability that your going to get hurt, and the fact that the person wielding the bat is trained with hand weapons, makes it a near certainty that your going to get hurt badly.   There are other examples of where truth as understood in the recent generations is defective.  Questions are good if your unbelieving friend(s are)  seeking, if their mind is already made up it is unlikely that any amount of evidence is going to work.</p>
<p>Three, God commands us to give them the answers.  1 Peter 3:15-16, &#8220;But set Christ apart as Lord in your hearts and always be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks about the hope you possess.  Yet do it with courtesy and respect, keeping a good conscience, so that those who slander your good conduct in Christ may be put to shame when they accuse you.&#8221;  Other passages are 2 Corinthians 10:5; Jude 3, 22; Titus 1:9; 2 Timothy 2:24-25.</p>
<p>One lesbian and one atheist at work are asking a lot of questions, why &#8211; because they are responded to &#8220;with courtesy and respect.&#8221;  This has happened many times in my walk with Christ.  In fact, I have jeopardized my position there to give them the answers as I have been warned by HR once.  A soul is worth more than a job.</p>
<p>To my unbelieving friends, my last and best example of Truth is Jesus, being the God-Man (Son of God) and Israel&#8217;s Messiah (the Christ) He is the embodiment of Truth.  (John 14:6)  I hope that if I meet you on the street or blogosphere you will see His reflection &#8211; not mine.</p>
<p>Courage and strength,</p>
<p>Jim</p>
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		<title>By: LaShawn</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/comment-page-1/#comment-15659</link>
		<dc:creator>LaShawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 10:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-15659</guid>
		<description>Hey Jeremy,

I think that it&#039;s great that you&#039;re willing to be open-minded and question your beliefs.  Accepting doctrines just because others tell you to is like the blind leading the blind when it comes to faith.  If what you&#039;re being taught is true, then you should be able to discover and come to that conclusion on your own anyway.

It&#039;s 5am, so I&#039;m sorry for not being able to explain myself very well.  I found a link to your blog from the de-Conversion website, and contrary to what some of your visitors here believe, de-C welcomes both believers, and non-believers alike.  You&#039;re free to join in on our discussions, and no our aim is not to de-convert you from your religion.  I find it nice having open-minded and intellectual Christians contribute to the blog, because it gives me (an atheist) something to think about.  My lack of faith is due to the lack of solid evidence, reason, and skepticism in Christianity.  I&#039;m hoping that Christians who have these qualities are willing to share, and that you are one of them.

Anyway, do what you feel is right regardless of the pressure, and I wish you best of luck with whatever you decide :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jeremy,</p>
<p>I think that it&#8217;s great that you&#8217;re willing to be open-minded and question your beliefs.  Accepting doctrines just because others tell you to is like the blind leading the blind when it comes to faith.  If what you&#8217;re being taught is true, then you should be able to discover and come to that conclusion on your own anyway.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s 5am, so I&#8217;m sorry for not being able to explain myself very well.  I found a link to your blog from the de-Conversion website, and contrary to what some of your visitors here believe, de-C welcomes both believers, and non-believers alike.  You&#8217;re free to join in on our discussions, and no our aim is not to de-convert you from your religion.  I find it nice having open-minded and intellectual Christians contribute to the blog, because it gives me (an atheist) something to think about.  My lack of faith is due to the lack of solid evidence, reason, and skepticism in Christianity.  I&#8217;m hoping that Christians who have these qualities are willing to share, and that you are one of them.</p>
<p>Anyway, do what you feel is right regardless of the pressure, and I wish you best of luck with whatever you decide <img src='http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/comment-page-1/#comment-15629</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-15629</guid>
		<description>Jeremy,

I pretty much reject all of the above and I&#039;m still very much a Christian (and very happy)! Take the plunge, man. ;) My friend Meg used to be a fundamentalist and she writes a lot about her reasons for rejecting pre-mil dispensationalism on her blog: http://megsoapbox.blogspot.com/ if you&#039;re interested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy,</p>
<p>I pretty much reject all of the above and I&#8217;m still very much a Christian (and very happy)! Take the plunge, man. <img src='http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  My friend Meg used to be a fundamentalist and she writes a lot about her reasons for rejecting pre-mil dispensationalism on her blog: <a href="http://megsoapbox.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://megsoapbox.blogspot.com/</a> if you&#8217;re interested.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Myers</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/comment-page-1/#comment-15625</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-15625</guid>
		<description>I came home from work today to find some strange e-mails in my inbox... which makes me think I need another clarification comment about this post. So, for those who are wondering... 

I have not rejected the traditional, evangelical, dispensational explanations for any one of the seven doctrines stated above. I said this both at the beginning and the end of my post, but people seem to be skimming over that and writing me some &quot;nice Christian emails&quot; about my slide into heresy. 

All I am doing is investigating some exegetical evidence that has recently been brought to my attention regarding these seven areas of doctrine. If you think it is wrong to question such things, then that is where we disagree.

In fact, some who are upset at me are my friends within Free Grace theology. Ironically, the only reason I am &quot;Free Grace&quot; today is because I was willing to consider exegetical evidence for a view that was contrary to what I had held and been taught my entire life. If I lived under the idea that it was wrong to question what I have always believed, I would still be a five-point-hyper-Calvinistic proponent of Lordship Salvation today. 

Also, based on one or two of the emails I received, it looks like some people may be trying to get me fired. Come on...really? Do you really want me to lose my job just because I have some questions about my beliefs? I am aghast that someone can even think this way! Doesn&#039;t the whole process of growing in the knowledge of Jesus and Scripture require that we regularly question and challenge what we believe?

Sure, I know that if I were to reject two or three certain doctrines listed above that they would be at odds with the doctrinal statement of the Grace Evangelical Society. But I have not rejected them. And if I were to reject any of them, I have enough integrity to leave quietly on my own. 

I am nowhere near the caliber of Luther, nor will I have his impact, but I wonder if this is how he felt when he posted his &quot;95 Theses&quot;? I&#039;ve only got seven. 

Anyway, you can sense my frustration. I am upset. I mean...trying to get me fired?!?!  I am beginning to see the truth of the wise advice from someone on another blog that if I am going to pursue these questions online, it might be best to do it anonymously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came home from work today to find some strange e-mails in my inbox&#8230; which makes me think I need another clarification comment about this post. So, for those who are wondering&#8230; </p>
<p>I have not rejected the traditional, evangelical, dispensational explanations for any one of the seven doctrines stated above. I said this both at the beginning and the end of my post, but people seem to be skimming over that and writing me some &#8220;nice Christian emails&#8221; about my slide into heresy. </p>
<p>All I am doing is investigating some exegetical evidence that has recently been brought to my attention regarding these seven areas of doctrine. If you think it is wrong to question such things, then that is where we disagree.</p>
<p>In fact, some who are upset at me are my friends within Free Grace theology. Ironically, the only reason I am &#8220;Free Grace&#8221; today is because I was willing to consider exegetical evidence for a view that was contrary to what I had held and been taught my entire life. If I lived under the idea that it was wrong to question what I have always believed, I would still be a five-point-hyper-Calvinistic proponent of Lordship Salvation today. </p>
<p>Also, based on one or two of the emails I received, it looks like some people may be trying to get me fired. Come on&#8230;really? Do you really want me to lose my job just because I have some questions about my beliefs? I am aghast that someone can even think this way! Doesn&#8217;t the whole process of growing in the knowledge of Jesus and Scripture require that we regularly question and challenge what we believe?</p>
<p>Sure, I know that if I were to reject two or three certain doctrines listed above that they would be at odds with the doctrinal statement of the Grace Evangelical Society. But I have not rejected them. And if I were to reject any of them, I have enough integrity to leave quietly on my own. </p>
<p>I am nowhere near the caliber of Luther, nor will I have his impact, but I wonder if this is how he felt when he posted his &#8220;95 Theses&#8221;? I&#8217;ve only got seven. </p>
<p>Anyway, you can sense my frustration. I am upset. I mean&#8230;trying to get me fired?!?!  I am beginning to see the truth of the wise advice from someone on another blog that if I am going to pursue these questions online, it might be best to do it anonymously.</p>
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		<title>By: MY LIFE &#187; Blog Archive &#187; With blinders on</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/comment-page-1/#comment-15593</link>
		<dc:creator>MY LIFE &#187; Blog Archive &#187; With blinders on</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 15:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-15593</guid>
		<description>[...] to discover Counterfeit Christianity&#8221; which has links to a post from Jeremy (&#8221;The Heretic in Me&#8220;), and links to Lou&#8217;s blog talking about Jeremy in &#8220;Is There Genuine Concern for [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to discover Counterfeit Christianity&#8221; which has links to a post from Jeremy (&#8221;The Heretic in Me&#8220;), and links to Lou&#8217;s blog talking about Jeremy in &#8220;Is There Genuine Concern for [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/comment-page-1/#comment-15591</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-15591</guid>
		<description>Jeremy:  I just found your blog, as linked from the de-conversion.com web site, following the discussion there.  I am an ex-Assemblies of God minister (25+ years ago!).  I won&#039;t discuss any of the topics you have raised, but I will only encourage you to ask questions, challenge every single doctrine, and (as much as is possible) refuse to accept any single side of an issue without investigating other reasonable answers as well.  Independent thinking and personal examination is the only way to ensure that what you &quot;believe&quot; is what you really believe.   You were born with a brain, and you are perfectly within your rights to use it completely.  I would also say that without heretics, infidels, and others willing to push the limits and look outside, we would still be living in caves and spearing wild animals for supper!

Good luck to you in your travels, wherever they may lead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy:  I just found your blog, as linked from the de-conversion.com web site, following the discussion there.  I am an ex-Assemblies of God minister (25+ years ago!).  I won&#8217;t discuss any of the topics you have raised, but I will only encourage you to ask questions, challenge every single doctrine, and (as much as is possible) refuse to accept any single side of an issue without investigating other reasonable answers as well.  Independent thinking and personal examination is the only way to ensure that what you &#8220;believe&#8221; is what you really believe.   You were born with a brain, and you are perfectly within your rights to use it completely.  I would also say that without heretics, infidels, and others willing to push the limits and look outside, we would still be living in caves and spearing wild animals for supper!</p>
<p>Good luck to you in your travels, wherever they may lead.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/comment-page-1/#comment-15586</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/12/19/the-heretic-in-me/#comment-15586</guid>
		<description>Hmmm ;)

All very interesting comments.

In regards to absolute truth, I believe in it absolutely.  However, as Bill has said, I dont think that EVERYTHING is black and white.  Somethings are relative and sometimes the Holy Spirit can speak to me about a particular passage and be saying something to me, while to someone else he may be saying something else.  I guess in a &#039;multi layered truth&#039; kind of a sense.

I must say one thing, as I read so many of these blogs regarding the church and christianity, so many of them are so intellectual, and to me often too intellectual.  I think that the church has far more pressing and &#039;simple&#039; concerns than a debate over premillenialism and the like.  

I think that the church needs to be looking at &quot;what does it mean to BE the church?&quot; What is that sposed to look like in my day to day life? How does it affect the wider community around me? How should me being a christian affect my relationship with my next door neighbour? (whom right now I don&#039;t even know - and feeling a little guilty about going off to India this weekend on a mission trip when I dont even know the guy next door?!!)

I&#039;m as keen as anyone for a discussion about old earth/young earth (i&#039;m a young earther for the record  - at least I think I am ;) But rather than all this constant intellectual bollix, let&#039;s sort out some of these basic issues first.  There are people within a 1km radius of me tonight who are being abused, starving, lonely, addicted, suicidal, hopeless, dying and going to hell (whatever it was that Jesus &#039;saved&#039; me from ;).  And I&#039;m not writing from India, I&#039;m writing from Australia.  

My point being...we (the church) have bigger fish to fry and just wonder if we really have time for what seems to be intellectual irrelevant BS?

Or it could be just me. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm <img src='http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>All very interesting comments.</p>
<p>In regards to absolute truth, I believe in it absolutely.  However, as Bill has said, I dont think that EVERYTHING is black and white.  Somethings are relative and sometimes the Holy Spirit can speak to me about a particular passage and be saying something to me, while to someone else he may be saying something else.  I guess in a &#8216;multi layered truth&#8217; kind of a sense.</p>
<p>I must say one thing, as I read so many of these blogs regarding the church and christianity, so many of them are so intellectual, and to me often too intellectual.  I think that the church has far more pressing and &#8217;simple&#8217; concerns than a debate over premillenialism and the like.  </p>
<p>I think that the church needs to be looking at &#8220;what does it mean to BE the church?&#8221; What is that sposed to look like in my day to day life? How does it affect the wider community around me? How should me being a christian affect my relationship with my next door neighbour? (whom right now I don&#8217;t even know &#8211; and feeling a little guilty about going off to India this weekend on a mission trip when I dont even know the guy next door?!!)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m as keen as anyone for a discussion about old earth/young earth (i&#8217;m a young earther for the record  &#8211; at least I think I am <img src='http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  But rather than all this constant intellectual bollix, let&#8217;s sort out some of these basic issues first.  There are people within a 1km radius of me tonight who are being abused, starving, lonely, addicted, suicidal, hopeless, dying and going to hell (whatever it was that Jesus &#8217;saved&#8217; me from <img src='http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> .  And I&#8217;m not writing from India, I&#8217;m writing from Australia.  </p>
<p>My point being&#8230;we (the church) have bigger fish to fry and just wonder if we really have time for what seems to be intellectual irrelevant BS?</p>
<p>Or it could be just me. <img src='http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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