<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Free Grace Alliance Conference Panel Discussion</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/10/15/free-grace-alliance-conference-panel-discussion/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/10/15/free-grace-alliance-conference-panel-discussion/</link>
	<description>Living life on mission</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Jeremy Myers</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/10/15/free-grace-alliance-conference-panel-discussion/#comment-4855</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/?p=81#comment-4855</guid>
		<description>Rachel, 

Regarding the panel discussion, Tom Stegall was the only member of the panel who gave an unqualified “Yes” answer to the panel topic. 

Ken Wilson, as best I could understand, argued that a person only has to believe that Jesus is the God-Man, the Christ, who takes away the sin of the world. He seemed to state that a lost person doesn’t have to know specifically how Jesus takes away sin. So this really is at odds with Tom Stegall’s view. 

The basic view of Tim Nichols was that “The questions doesn’t matter because we always talk about the death and resurrection of Jesus anyway.” 

Larry Moyer was a last minute addition to the panel, and he was somewhere between Tom Stegall and Tim Nichols. He said that he always talks about the death and resurrection, but that if someone believed in Jesus for eternal life before he had the chance to tell them about the death and resurrection, he thought they would probably go to heaven, but wasn’t sure. 

So as you can see, the question was not answered by any of these three men by a “Yes” or a “No.” Asking for a “yes” or “no” answer to this question is like asking a man “Yes or no. Have you stopped beating your wife?” 

The panel question was: “Is explicit belief in Jesus’ death and resurrection necessary for eternal salvation?” In my e-mails to Dave Anderson, which I have copies of, I answered this question “Yes” because of passages like Heb 5:9. But of course, in that passage, obedience is also required, and the salvation in view is sanctification, not justification. 

Clarity of terminology is vitally important in this debate. The term “salvation” in Scripture rarely (if ever) refers solely and only to receiving eternal life. In fact, I personally can’t find one place where it refers solely and only to receiving eternal life. Not even Ephesisans 2:8-9, which in context, refers to being seated with Christ in the heavenlies, etc. So if someone were to ask me “Is belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus necessary for salvation?” my answer is either “Yes” or “What do you mean by ’salvation’ and is that the Biblical use of that term?” 

What I really appreciate about your response to my comment is that you seemed to have clarified what you mean by the term by writing “saved/receive eternal life.” If you would allow me to remove the word “saved” then I can answer your question more directly. So, as reworded, you question is: “Is explicit belief in Jesus’ death and resurrection required for a lost person to receive eternal life?”

The answer to that question is the answer to this question: “Did Peter and the other apostles believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus when they beleived in Him for eternal life?” They clearly did not as various passages in the Gospels reveal. So, right here, in Scripture, we have examples of people who did not believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus, but who did have eternal life because they believed in Jesus for it. 

But if someone argues, “Yes, but that is before the historical events of the death and resurrection of Jesus!” then we now have another question: “Has the condition for receiving eternal life changed?” That is the real question behind this debate. 

So far, I am undecided on this issue, and am still seeking answers. I have not yet seen an explanation on how Peter and the apostles could have eternal life without believing in the death and resurrection of Jesus, but how today we must believe it. Did the offer of eternal life change? 

This is why I pointed people to my blog to answer some of the questions I have posted there. They are not trick questions trying to sidetrack the debate. If I am to be convinced that belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus are necessary today to receive eternal life, those are the questions I need answered. Right now, I cannot answer them, and I don’t see Tom, or Lou, or Dennis, trying to answer those questions from Scripture either. Until then, I am officially undecided. 

Anyway, thanks for your blog. Good, friendly places are needed to discuss these things.

Jeremy Myers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rachel, </p>
<p>Regarding the panel discussion, Tom Stegall was the only member of the panel who gave an unqualified “Yes” answer to the panel topic. </p>
<p>Ken Wilson, as best I could understand, argued that a person only has to believe that Jesus is the God-Man, the Christ, who takes away the sin of the world. He seemed to state that a lost person doesn’t have to know specifically how Jesus takes away sin. So this really is at odds with Tom Stegall’s view. </p>
<p>The basic view of Tim Nichols was that “The questions doesn’t matter because we always talk about the death and resurrection of Jesus anyway.” </p>
<p>Larry Moyer was a last minute addition to the panel, and he was somewhere between Tom Stegall and Tim Nichols. He said that he always talks about the death and resurrection, but that if someone believed in Jesus for eternal life before he had the chance to tell them about the death and resurrection, he thought they would probably go to heaven, but wasn’t sure. </p>
<p>So as you can see, the question was not answered by any of these three men by a “Yes” or a “No.” Asking for a “yes” or “no” answer to this question is like asking a man “Yes or no. Have you stopped beating your wife?” </p>
<p>The panel question was: “Is explicit belief in Jesus’ death and resurrection necessary for eternal salvation?” In my e-mails to Dave Anderson, which I have copies of, I answered this question “Yes” because of passages like Heb 5:9. But of course, in that passage, obedience is also required, and the salvation in view is sanctification, not justification. </p>
<p>Clarity of terminology is vitally important in this debate. The term “salvation” in Scripture rarely (if ever) refers solely and only to receiving eternal life. In fact, I personally can’t find one place where it refers solely and only to receiving eternal life. Not even Ephesisans 2:8-9, which in context, refers to being seated with Christ in the heavenlies, etc. So if someone were to ask me “Is belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus necessary for salvation?” my answer is either “Yes” or “What do you mean by ’salvation’ and is that the Biblical use of that term?” </p>
<p>What I really appreciate about your response to my comment is that you seemed to have clarified what you mean by the term by writing “saved/receive eternal life.” If you would allow me to remove the word “saved” then I can answer your question more directly. So, as reworded, you question is: “Is explicit belief in Jesus’ death and resurrection required for a lost person to receive eternal life?”</p>
<p>The answer to that question is the answer to this question: “Did Peter and the other apostles believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus when they beleived in Him for eternal life?” They clearly did not as various passages in the Gospels reveal. So, right here, in Scripture, we have examples of people who did not believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus, but who did have eternal life because they believed in Jesus for it. </p>
<p>But if someone argues, “Yes, but that is before the historical events of the death and resurrection of Jesus!” then we now have another question: “Has the condition for receiving eternal life changed?” That is the real question behind this debate. </p>
<p>So far, I am undecided on this issue, and am still seeking answers. I have not yet seen an explanation on how Peter and the apostles could have eternal life without believing in the death and resurrection of Jesus, but how today we must believe it. Did the offer of eternal life change? </p>
<p>This is why I pointed people to my blog to answer some of the questions I have posted there. They are not trick questions trying to sidetrack the debate. If I am to be convinced that belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus are necessary today to receive eternal life, those are the questions I need answered. Right now, I cannot answer them, and I don’t see Tom, or Lou, or Dennis, trying to answer those questions from Scripture either. Until then, I am officially undecided. </p>
<p>Anyway, thanks for your blog. Good, friendly places are needed to discuss these things.</p>
<p>Jeremy Myers</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/10/15/free-grace-alliance-conference-panel-discussion/#comment-4749</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 19:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/?p=81#comment-4749</guid>
		<description>Hi Jeremy,

You recently posted a comment on &lt;a href="http://blog.jessecamacho.com/free_grace/?p=18#comments" rel="nofollow"&gt;a blog that I contribute to&lt;/a&gt;. I responded to you, but you have yet to reply. Would you return to our blog and respond? I'll be back later to answer some of your questions here as well.

Thanks,
Rachel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeremy,</p>
<p>You recently posted a comment on <a href="http://blog.jessecamacho.com/free_grace/?p=18#comments" rel="nofollow">a blog that I contribute to</a>. I responded to you, but you have yet to reply. Would you return to our blog and respond? I&#8217;ll be back later to answer some of your questions here as well.</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
Rachel</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TILL HE COMES Blog &#187; FGA Conference Panel Discussions</title>
		<link>http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/2007/10/15/free-grace-alliance-conference-panel-discussion/#comment-3332</link>
		<dc:creator>TILL HE COMES Blog &#187; FGA Conference Panel Discussions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tillhecomes.org/blog/?p=81#comment-3332</guid>
		<description>[...] On the Bible, Church, and Theology    &#171; Free Grace Alliance Conference Panel Discussion [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] On the Bible, Church, and Theology    &laquo; Free Grace Alliance Conference Panel Discussion [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
